Upcoming AADL-GT Events: Retro Octathalon & State of Gaming Panel

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AADL-GT: Ann Arbor District Library Game Tournaments

OK, so the new branch is open and running well, it's time to get back to AADL-GT! We've got some very cool and very different events coming up in April. First, on Friday, April 14th, the first day of Spring Break, we've got the first ever AADL-GT Retro Octathalon, an olympic-style event featuring 8 vintage (pre-1990) games, and some great prizes for the best overall players. Then, on April 23rd, we'll be having a panel discussion on the State of Gaming, where we will engage in a definitely spirited and possibly civil conversation about where games are now, and where they are going, especially as we teeter on the precipice of the next generation. However, we need to flesh out some details for both of these events, so read on and add your comments.

Here's how I envision the Retro Octathalon working. We've got three time slots for qualifiers for different age ranges, teen, kid, and adult. Each contender will rotate through all 8 games. We will keep track of the high scores for each game and each age bracket, and the players with the highest total scores for all 8 events combined, in each age brackets will win small prizes, and will qualify for the championships at 8:00. So, you can get glory by having the highest score for a single event for your age bracket or overall, but you've got to do well at all 8 games to qualify for the 'medal round'. With me so far? You know how I love these complex tournament schemes. Somewhere, EJK is sweating. =)

Ok, so what we need to decide on is what these 8 games will be. Here are the constraints:

- The game must have been released before 1990
- The game must provide a score
- The game must be legally obtained (no mame roms)
- The game must not be too open-ended (i.e. no pacman or defender which can go on forever)
- The tournament attempt should be completable in around 5 minutes
- Minimal Randomness is preferable
- All qualifying events will be in single player mode

So, to get you started, here are the ones I've been thinking about:

- Super Mario Bros., worlds 1-1 through 1-4, highest score
- Hogan's Alley Trick Shot (Duck Hunt is too easy)
- Marble Madness
- Galaxian
- Circus Atari
- Root Beer Tapper
- 720
- Star Wars Arcade (1 death star run only)

For the finals, I was thinking about some of these:

- Atari Combat or Pong
- Rampart
- Rampage
- Super Sprint
- Joust
- Mario Bros.

Like most of our tournaments, your overall seed will determine your opponent, but I like the idea of head-to-head finals. So, what do you think? What should stay? What should go? What did I miss? Cough it up!

Then, we've got the State of Gaming panel coming up, where I will select a set of around 5 of you to be on a panel that I will moderate. If you'd like to be on the panel, let me know here by posting a short paragraph on what you think the next generation of consoles will offer gamers. You have the best chance of being chosen if your opinions are well-reasoned, articulate, and clever. While you all know I'm about the biggest Nintendo fanboy ever, don't pander to that; say what you think, and back it up.

Comments

I've actually played some of those games... Thanks for making me feel old at 16, Eli!
This sounds awesome!!! I don't really have any suggestions... Duck and I can bring the Pioneer Robotics Club!


Alright, this is 2nd Period right now. At lunch, I will tell Kevin about this. I have printed off the headline so I can show it to him. Tell me later if a Senior can't do this or something.

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For the most part, the suggestion of games you listed above would make for a great tournament. I do have a few questions on some of the titles you mentioned though, particularly for the prelims:

In the criteria you stated that the title shouldn't be too open ended, but aren't Galaxian, Hogan's Alley Trick Shot and Root Beer Tapper pretty much along the lines of Pac-Man where you can keep advancing through levels as long as you can? Maybe the best solution would be to impose a time limit on these titles because while someone could go on forever playing, a retro tourney without something like Ms. Pac-Man wouldn't be right.

Also you said that the game must be legally obtained. I take it that you mean a real copy must be available for play at the event. My only concern is that a few of the games you have listed above aren't easily obtainable by regular individuals, for example the Star Wars Arcade game. Maybe that's a poor example since a version did go out on a demo disk for the last Rouge Squadron game on the Gamecube, but I think you get my point. In addition, many of the normal retailers such as Gamestop have stopped selling any titles pre PlayStation One, so unless you have a specialty store in your area (like Game-Hits here in Lansing) obtaining some of the older titles for the NES might even be a problem. If the point though is to see how good players are without being able to practice the games before hand, then that my friend is a cool competition, one I've wanted to participate in for years.

As for game suggestions, here are a few:

- Donkey Kong, one pass through all 4 levels
- (Mike Tyson's) Punch-Out, go for as long as possible, or just through the first belt which includes Glass Joe, Von Kaiser and Piston Honda.
- Frogger, if a time limit were implemented
- Tetris, again with a time limit
- Street Fighter, finding a copy might be hard, but it would be an excellent head-to-head game

Finally, is the State of Gaming panel only for teens, or is it open to anyone. Being involved in the gaming industry somewhat as a writer of reviews/previews, etc. on a gaming site, I'd love to participate in something like this. If it is open to everyone, I'll write something up later today.


Now I have the street fighter music in my head..


About the panel. Will it be online or will there be live meetings?

About the accesability. There were several re-releases of older games on new systems. The current one that the library I know contains these games.

- Marble Madness
- Root Beer Tapper
- 720
- Rampart
- Rampage
- Joust

Also the orginal Mario is on GBA and with the Game Boy player we can make that work. So I don't think we have to worry to much about which games we can get.

By the way I like the selection many of the games I have played but I want to play the other ones.


I agree with the tetris idea, but I think it might be a little too open ended. You could however, limit the amount of time someone can play to five minutes or something like that.

Will the state of gaming panel be a structured debate or will it be like the planning meeting. I thought the planning meeting's structure was great, but in the planning meeting everyone had a common interest. I don't think that would work for a meeting of hardcore RTS/FPS mixing with hardcore RPG mixing with hardcore Nintendo. I think that could get ugly.

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"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Now that I've joined omokusaki in the over 18 crowd, I'm extremely curious. Is the State of Gaming Panel open to those over 18? Obviously, that is something that I would love to do, assuming it's open to me.

edit: If we are allowed on the panel, can we e-mail our paragraph application thingies rather than posting them? And, if so, are you still the same e-mail that I have for you from a year or two ago?

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
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If it's of any help, I am advertising the tournaments within Huron to many of the people who I think may have an interest in Retro Gaming. Also Kevin was absent all this week so I havn't been able to tell him.

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It is apparent that gaming is in age of development in terms of graphics, sound, and physics. One can also see that online gaming is becoming more and more popular and that the best selling games will out sell blockbuster hits. What the casual observer of gaming trends will miss however, is the increasing view of some that gaming is a sport. Gaming is slowly moving from a time killer, like TV, to a competitive sport. There are online leagues, local tournaments, and even huge conventions in which one can compete for cash and other prizes. This trend is seen most visibly in South Korea where a good professional gamer can make six figures. This more competitive form of gaming allows the gamer to feel like a teammate instead of just another player. It also inspires a gamer to become the best they can be at one game. I have experienced this first hand myself. Before the axis tournaments I just played for fun. Although I was good at a lot of games, I was almost bored by games. Even though they were fun at the moment you felt like you had wasted your time afterwards. When I started practicing for tournaments and competing in tournaments that feeling went away. I now had a reason to play which is essential to enjoy gaming better. Many people get together with friends to play pick-up soccer. My friends and I play pick-up America's Army. Using a program called xfire, we can voice chat each other and play cooperatively against other players online. Just like a pick-up game of soccer we converse socially during play, but also compete. We are now entering a league and are starting to play more competitively, but we are still enjoying because of that sense of competition.

Well, there's my entry. I really would've rather written an essay though.

Daniel you aren't part of the over 18 crowd so I'm sure you can enter.

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Also what time would the panel be on friday? I don't know if I'll be able to make it.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


I would have to agree with you on the point that we are greatly developing the graphics, sound, and mechanics of games. I wish we were improving style, storyline and game play though. I don't like the overly competitive nature that is being adopted by gamers. The whole calling people noobs is demeaning and is bringing an unsportsmanlike taste to the previously friendly environment.

When are the DVDs going to come out.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
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Actually, TP2, Daniel is part of the over 18 crowd. Remember? The 24-hour movie thingy was his birthday party.
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"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-GR... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli
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I thought he turned 18 then not 19. Although I maybe wrong.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


It's the 18 and over crowd, not the over 18 crowd. I'm 18, most of the events (such as the AADL-GT) are for 13-17 I believe.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


No, I thought it was that it is 6-12 grade not 13-17 age.

btw, I managed to show Kevin the printout. He loved it.

"If this wasn't paper, I'd have sex with it"-Kevin

I managed to make a profile for him so he will be posting soon. I also arranged to have my "The Reds" symbol on his posts. So if you see my logo, it's not always gonna be me.

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CURSES!

I won't be able to make either of these events, as I will be leaving on the 12th to go to Spain!

CURSES AGAIN!!!!!!!!
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"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-GR... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli
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I have a problem. I have a clan battle with another clan in America's Army on saturday, but we have no server. Nor do they. Does anyone have a server I can borrow. lol

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

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State of Gaming:

Let's start with the X-Box-360. A decent launch, and getting out first is certainly a good help for Microsoft, particularly with the long delay before the other two systems. However, the lack of Halo 3 is still disturbing. The 360 won't be a real system until it has a real game, in this case Halo 3. The launch games are decent, but not good enough. Obviously a lot of launch dates are still up in the air, but Microsoft needs to launch Halo 3 well before the PS3 and Revolution come out to convince people to buy an X-Box 360 as the only option.

The PS3 looked the best at the start, but it has had a number of setbacks. I believe that pushing launch back is a good decision for Sony, because it allows them to fix bugs (Microsoft would have done better delaying launch a little while). My biggest worry right now is the price. Numbers have been batted around all over the place, as high as $900. Now, of course Sony won't launch the PS3 at $900, that would be suicide, but when you start saying that $600 is more reasonable, that worries me. $400 may be Sony's best bet. Sure, their profit margin is almost gone, but with technological superiority over the other two, and riding on the success of the PS2, they'll sell a lot of systems and hence a lot of games. A higher priced PS3 will still sell, and perhaps Sony will make more money if it's reasonable, but they need ot worry about the next next generation. Sony needs to keep its image as the Ford of consoles. (Wait, you say, I've never heard of Sony called the "Ford" of consoles. Of course not, I just made it up. But I think it's a valid comparison.) If Sony comes out as the top seller in this generation, they'll be in a perfect position for the future. So Sony needs to make the call for the future, not short term profits. That means a PS3 priced as close to the cheap Revolution as possible.

As a side note, for those of you who can't say PS3 without mentioning Blueray in the same sentence, Blueray is a mistake. The technology is too expensive to catch on.

Now, the revolution. I'll say up front that I intend to buy one. That's because I'm a Nintendo fanboy. But we're talking about the console war, not Leinad's purchasing habits, so lets look at it for the overall public.

As people love to point out, Nintendo has a solid fan base, and doesn't care much about mainstream success. So the Revolution will NOT flop. Even if the controller sucks, fanboys will still love it. Since I brought up the controller, lets start by talking about that. It looks different. The biggest thing I've noticed though is that everyone who hates it are people like us who have never seen it. Every review I've read by someone who's actually used it was very enthusiastic. So I remain optomistic. Regarding third party support, yes, it will hurt because some companies will choose not to make games for the revolution. But, other companies will make Revolution specific games taking advantage of the new control scheme. And, Nintendo will have a traditional controller as an option, so yes, Nintendo will have multi-system games.

One thing I've heard mentioned that has merit is that Revolution will be the ideal second system for non-fanboys. With a low price and unique games, why not buy it? PS3 and X-Box 360 will be similar enough that you don't need both (unless you have $1000 plus the cost of games just sitting in your attic collecting dust).

The last thing I'd like to say about the Revolution is to compare it to the DS. Remember when the DS launched. People said things like "touch control???" and "the PSP has better graphics and sound, it's so much better" and "this is just a gimmick!" Sound familiar? Change a few nouns and that's exactly what a lot of people are saying about the Revolution. However, the DS showed that it can support some great games, and that touch control was not a gimmick and that it could still pull off some great games that didn't use touch control (AW:DS, MK:DS, Castlevania). And online worked, very well.

A lot of talk has gone around recently about Nintendo's "kiddie" image. On one hand, a "family friendly" system isn't a bad thing. It hurts mainstream appeal, yes, but it will still sell well to kids, families and fanboys. But there is a difference between "family friendly" and "kiddie". Nintendo moved mroe towards family friendly with the DS, and hopefully the Revolution will be another step in that direction.

So, the overall prediction:
1) 360
2) PS3
3) Revolution

But, for the next-next generation (PS4, XBox720 and GameHyperCube)
1) Nintendo
2) Microsoft
3) Sony

I don't see this generation as about this generation, I see it as about a set-up for the next generation, Sony will make some short term deicions that will allow it to beat Nintendo, but hurt in the long run, Microsoft hangs in there, but only Nintendo has the lasting power.

So that's where we stand now, a few "what if" predictions to end it. Here are some things that could make each console an instant success.

360:

Halo 3 launches early and does well. Microsoft has put all its eggs in one basket. Likely, Halo 3 will be good enough to sell amazingly and keep Microsoft in the game, but not perfect enough to kill another company

PS3:

Keep the cost down, launch early (but not before you're ready). a PS3 under $400 would be a miracle and harken a new age of Sony-only gaming.

Revolution:

All about the games. You need to show off traditional and new control at the launch. A great shooter at launch would be amazing, Resident Evil: Revolution (yeah right) would be perfect. A Mario or Zelda game that's really good needs to come out soon after launch. The next Smash Brothers should be a launch game and use traditional controls or pull of the "remote" controller really well.

I apologize for the length, I just started typing and kept going. You'll notice that the obvious ommision is online gaming. The reason is that it's important, but in mind, less important than a lot of people (like Stephen) make it out to be. But even if it is extremely important, all three systems support online play, so the quality there won't make or break a system. Yes, Microsoft will win online, but it won't be decisive enough to make a major difference overall.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


Oops, you said "short paragraph" didn't you? My ideas don't fit in a short paragraph. Sorry.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


Super Smash Brothers: Melee.

.___________________.


You make some good points Leinad, but I don't believe in a fourth generation. I think that systems are moving closer and closer to computers as it is and eventually consoles will have lost almost all purpose. (I view multiplayer gaming as the purpose of consoles.)

By the way if I do get invited to the state of gaming panel I would very much like to debate the PSP vs. DS issue. I think that this issue is representative of the state of gaming.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Balloon man is cool. we should include that. it isnt never ending really.


I have been working hard and am planning to open Turtle Clan's website to the public. I am no longer worried about releasing strategies to the public (although I never had any on the original TCO) because Turtle Clan is now primarily an America's Army clan, but we are still competing in the GT. In a few days I'll post the URL. I'm still working on content so don't get excited.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Yea i got a sneak preview at the website it is sweet. At least from my prespective of not being able to turn computers on and stuff. Also almost all the pictures in the walk through are screen shots.

"If you don't offer them something that has value to them now, you're going to be irrelevant to them for the rest of their lives. It's not a risk we can afford to take."
Eli


He's wrong don't get your hopes up.

Turtle Clan Online

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


I think the blog died.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Yea there are new events coming up so there really isnt anything to talk about. Next season Eli try to boister the off season with mario Kart melee ddr and other games you could even use a suprise round game and have a mini tourney,

"If you don't offer them something that has value to them now, you're going to be irrelevant to them for the rest of their lives. It's not a risk we can afford to take."
Eli


I wouldn't call a few posts a day dead. I agree with Michael, it's just slowed down because there isn't much happening. I like it this way personally, because it's much easier to follow everything that's happening as opposed to those times when there are 20 posts a day and all sorts of random stuff I don't care about.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


OK, a few questions here to answer. First, the state of gaming panel is for all ages. I originally envisioned a panel of teenage gamers, but you would be a great addition to the panel, Omokusaki. TP2 and Leinad wrote some very interesting stuff and I hope you can both join the panel. In response: Until you can play brand-new games on a $300 PC with absolutely no configuration required, there will be a console market. The PS3 will absolutely ship with a blu-ray drive, there's really no question about it. Also, I think the revolution has the potential to sell the most units in this next generation by appealing to gamers and non-gamers alike, and that Nintendo will remain the only one of the three that makes money on its game business.

Ok, on to the Octathalon. A time limit is a very good idea. I'd advocate for 4 minutes, that way, with 8 games and 8 stations, the system can handle 15 players per hour, and it takes about half an hour for a player to go through all 8 games. Here's what I'm thinking now for the 8 games:

1. Super Mario Bros.
2. Donkey Kong
3. Duck Hunt (with the time limit, this would be awesome)
4. Frogger
5. Root Beer Tapper
6. Galaxian
7. Circus Atari
8. Pac Man

My only conundrum here is that I think either Super Mario Bros or Donkey Kong should be replaced by something non-nintendo, maybe River Raid, Dig Dug, Kaboom (does anyone have a working atari? Mine is DOA), or does anyone want to advocate for 720 or paperboy? This is getting close to the final list, so let's hear it, what should go and what should stay?

For the finals, I'm thinking this order, not heavily changed from above, but all multiplayer:

1. Rampage
2. Joust
3. Video Olympics (Pong variant)
4. Finals: Marble Madness

I've only put games in here that I know how to get a hold of legally, but if you have a working NES or atari you can bring to the event, let me know.


DIG......DUG!!!!
Sorry, Dig Dug and Galigaa are my two most favorite retro games. Add in Duck Hunt as well.
I am definitely looking foward to this event and I am going to update Kevin on this. Whats so funny is that he is going to stomp all of you. Even you Ian. Since I don't want to be squashed like a bug by anyone, might we be able to have teams of some sort, like averaging points together?

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Eli, I have a working NES here with me in Lansing that I could bring if you needed. It's one of the older front loading machines, and what's odd is the only way I can guarantee that the game won't get weird graphic anomalies and then randomly go into a reset loop is if I throw a Game Genie on it. This shouldn't be a problem though since you don't have to enter any codes, but I thought I should through it out there anyway.

As for the panel, what date were you thinking of holding it?


Hey I'm no expert. I don't expect to win, but I hope to do well. I'm just glad that adults are in a different bracket. If I had to compete against my dad I'd just hope to get a 10th of his score. Mike pay attention to Eli, he said Duckhunt was to easy. Plus I don't have time to practice because I'm too involved in Kingdom Hearts 2 to have free time for anything else.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
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Also, I think the revolution has the potential to sell the most units in this next generation by appealing to gamers and non-gamers alike, and that Nintendo will remain the only one of the three that makes money on its game business.

I have to respectfully disagree. I was in journalism today and people were talking about Next-gen consoles. These were what we like to call "normal" people, who don't know an inordinate amount of things about games. In their discussion, they didn't even consider to Revolution as a serious prospect. So yes, the revolution will sell to non-gamers and families, but it cannot win the console war without getting the college aged crowd. Which because of preconceived stereotypes it will be unable to do. However, it will help break those stereotypes and put Nintendo in a position for the future. At least that's my opinion.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


Dig Dug please. It is one of the few retro games I am good at.

I agree with Daniel. I read the paper every morning and I see stories about the Revolution almost never. The PS3 on the other hand has articles about it frequently. The Blu-ray, although not economically sound, is a good idea because it creates extra buzz for

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want to have some stuff to save for the panel.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Leinad, are you talking the console war as it pertains to the US or world-wide?

I ask because you must remember that what sells here in the US is Halo (and its clones) and Madden titles. Unlike many other nations around the world, gamers here aren't willing to give innovative titles (such as Pikmin, Nintendogs, many many many unique RPGs) much of a chance because it either isn't another Halo(or Halo clone)/Madden or it isn't the cookie-cutter sequel to a popular game last year. Yes, the occasional game does break through, such as Katamari Damacy, but once that happens in the US Namco quickly attempts to push two sequels out within the span of a year and a half, which was never the developer's original intention.

I feel that the typical college "Halo/Madden" male has put a damper on gaming here in the North America, so much so that companies are less willing to invest in innovative titles to release here than in other parts of the world. This is why I feel Nintendo is more likely to win the console war in other countries where this phenomenon has yet, and most likely will not occur.


Dig Dug please. It is one of the few retro games I am good at.
I agree with Daniel. I read the paper every morning and I see stories about the Revolution almost never. The PS3 on the other hand has articles about it frequently. The Blu-ray, although not economically sound, is a good idea because it creates extra buzz for Sony. Keep in mind that Sony wants the Blu-ray to get as much publicity as possible because that is what they are backing.

Also game companies generally don't try to make money on a console because they know that they will make it back on a game. Even though Microsoft sells the xbox 360 at a loss, in a year or so they will have made up for it in the sale of games. Keep in mind that the cost of manufacturing (not producing) a game is almost zero.

I think that what the Revolution needs to do in order to compete in the console market is have one killer app that blows away everyone. Take Halo for example with the xbox. You had people who bought an xbox just to play Halo who ended up using the xbox as their primary system. If the revolution can create a game that makes everyone want to play it so badly that they are willing to buy a revolution just to do so, the revolution will sell. Nintendo will have a problem doing that though because they have never tried to create a classic shooting game. They have the MP series, but it is hard to get someone who enjoys classic shooters to want to play that.

I think that the Revolution also has a disadvantage in that its graphics aren't going to be eye-popping like the PS3. This is nintendo's biggest problem. I would argue that part of the success of the N64 was due to the awe of some gamers in response to the then awe-inspiring graphics of Super Mario 64. (I was certainly impressed when I saw it.) In order to successfully get people's attention Nintendo needs to create something with great graphics. Although gameplay is more important, graphics are the first impression of a new game. I think we can all agree that even though it is a bad thing many people judge a book by its cover. The same thing applies to games. People judge a game by its graphics.

I'm going to stop here because I want to have some stuff to save for the panel.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

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Ok, Ian, Eli said Duck Hunt w/ the timer in the post right before my last post. Also, my time is being eaten away by the ever awsome Kingdom Hearts 2. The only problem is that since I have school and my brother is out of school most of the day, he is much farther than I am. He plays it like 24/7. I wish I could play that much if
1. I didn't have school.
2. My brother would stop playing until 2 am and give me a turn!!!

I swear, he is playing it right now! I'm only at Hades right now.

---
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"Yeah...I was naked once"-...Duh, Kevin S.
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Well if Nintendo wanted to wow us with graphics they would make a system that only maxes out when you play it on a $4000 (sony) television, or did Microsoft already do that. Shooters only appeal to a very small population. I should point out that about 1 in 600 people owns a PS2 while xBox only sold really in the US. The blueray tech. isn't really that expensive, so each disk cost an extra buck, the majority of the price of a game is from the programing that takes years.

That's too bad EBD, I just finished Hades the second time around. Whatever you do don't watch him if you missed a good deal of it. It would ruin it for you.

[gtlogo:VMC]


The blu-ray is very expensive. The disks aren't the hard part it is the blu-ray reader. As for programming a game you are completely right most games take a long time to make, but I said manufacture (not produce).

If shooters appeal to such a small audience Halo wouldn't have been a huge success.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Halo was only a huge success in America. The Japanese and European markets are almost completely Sony/Nintendo. More Sony then Nintendo.

Once you put something into mass production the price to manufacture drops significantly. So initially the PS3 might cost a pretty penny, but the cost to manufacture will drop rather fast after some people start buying it. Plus you yourself said that companies are willing to take a loss on the console making it up in games.


I think that people who have discussions about not-yet-released-or-even-formally-announced consoles are gamers. They may have other interests too, but that's not a 'normal' conversation when you compare it to the number of people talking about television programs, etc.

Also (without taking too much wind out of the panel, which I think is going to be very cool), how do you define winning? You might say shipping the most units, but Nintendo shareholders may well disagree. Nintendo knows how to be #3 in terms of units sold and still make money hand over fist. Also, TP2, when I say that xbox was not profitable for microsoft, I'm not talking about the sales of the unit itself, I'm talking about the entire Xbox business; software, licenses, Xbox live which is a very expensive service to build and deliver, everything. Microsoft has not made one dime of profit from the Xbox. If you don't believe that, see this line from an interview with Gates himself in Time Magazine, May 2005, or read this excellent 1up article from last month. Basically, Microsoft has consistently lost around $1 billion a year on their Xbox business. Sure, they can afford it, but is that winning?

The panel will be Sunday, 4/23, 1-3 PM at Malletts Creek Branch.

So, does everyone agree that dig dug should replace donkey kong?


I think that Microsoft entered the console market without a very good business model. They had a system which was losing them money every time they sold one. They also produced very few first party games (Nintendo produce more than any Microsoft or Sony). I won't argue with you that Nintendo makes more money per console or that they make more money in the gaming industry, but keep in mind that Microsoft has a huge war chest to draw from. They can take a loss for years, but if they keep producing stunning products eventually they will have the whole market. Think about how much market share they gained with their entry into the console market.

Also another reason that Nintendo makes more money right now is its console. I don't think you could buy the individual parts that make up that console because they are obsolete.

40 MB ram, 485 mHz processor, I haven't seen parts like that since 2000 or before. Of course I doubt that the xbox even has a 1 gHz processor (I didn't check this so I might be wrong).

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Eli, I define this as winning.


OK, a few changes to the basic lineup, but after Eric and I raided our basements, we've come up with 2 (mostly) working NES and (maybe) 1 working atari. So, the finals stay as posted above, but the quals with most likely be:

1. Super Mario Bros.
2. Dig Dug
3. Duck Hunt
4. KABOOM! (could not find an authentic copy of frogger)
5. Root Beer Tapper
6. Galaga (not galaxian, galaga is better)
7. Circus Atari (because circus atari is awesome)
8. Pac Man

All games will be the standard number of lives OR 4 minutes, whichever ends first.

Finals remain Rampage, Joust, Video Olympics, and Marble Madness.


cAN I POST? sweet my parents installed something called net nanny so i cant post at home, or read it,
Doom... Shalt... BLAZE!!![gtlogo:SDK]


Okay, a few more changes. We're not sure if we can get the atari to work with a clean signal, so we have to make some adjustments to choose games that are playable on the equipment we have. We're also going to go back in time, starting with 1985, so here are the qualifiers:

1. Super Mario Bros. (1985)
2. Duck Hunt (1985)
3. Root Beer Tapper (1983)
4. Dig Dug (1982)
5. Galaga (1981)
6. Pac Man (1980)
7. Circus Atari (1979)
8. Space Invaders (1979)

Finals will be:

1. Rampage (1986)
2. Joust (1982)
3. Freeway or Outlaw (depending on Atari video quality)
Finals: Marble Madness (1984)

OK, spread the word! Kid quals from 1-3, teen quals from 3-6, adult quals from 6-8, and finals from 8-9. NEWS FLASH: We're going to televise the Adult Quals and the finals, so if you are knowledgeable about these games and want to do commentary, let me know! We're going to do the full gt treatment on this event!


Oops, stupid computer. I've been coming every day, but was unaware that new comments had been posted.

omokusaki - you make a very good point about the US vs worldwide market. Since I live in the US market and don't have much experience with the non-gaming media outside of the US or public opinion elsewhere, I have no way to judge the non-US market, so my predictions pertain only to that market.

Stephen - I agree that the Revolution needs a game ot blow people away. Super Mario 64 and OoT both did that for the 64, and the Cube was a bit late in getting a blow-away game. RE4 to some extent, but that's about it. A perfect Mario or Zelda that redefines gaming would seal a victory for the revolution.

Eli - regarding a definition of winning, as I pointed out previously, I see this generation as about image going into the next next generation, so the console that "wins" overall is the one with the best public image when the dust settles at the end. As far as winning this generation - I'd place profit over number sold, although both are very important factors (and number sold impacts the image, or at least reflects it).

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


Will MM have a rollerball? Also will Space Invaders have a joystick? If you have the rollerball then I would be very surprised.

[gtlogo:VMC]


I'm afraid I can't yet justify this awesome trackball, but Nemo is going to let us use his X-Arcade Dual.

By the way, Leinad, TP2, and omokusaki are all obviously qualified to serve on the April 23rd panel. Anyone else? And where, pray tell, is Mr. Pickwick?


I would, if I could be there, but I'm not getting back until 9:55 that night, so I'm going to be a bit late for it. Which is too bad, because I was looking forward to it.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-GR... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli
5000th comment poster!
[gtlogo:VMC]


I talked to Pickwick about the State of Gaming panel, and I believe that he felt as though it was not something he was interested in. However, I am not sure as that was a while ago. I shall raise the issue again when I next see him on Monday. (Assuming that he has not surfaced here before then)

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]


Pickwick is verbose through indirect mediums, but does not communicate well in person, especially in large groups; he feels, therefore, that there are others much better qualified than he to serve on the panel, though he certainly plans to attend the event.
Also, he has not researched the new gaming consoles nearly so well as have the other entrants, and feels rather out of his depth.


Was it just my computer or was the entire blog down for a few days.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


Only the aadlgt stuff and a few other things.


I think we should start the panel by discussing a statistic I recently read that said that 43% of people surveyed say that they play less games now than they did last year. It is an interesting fact and really says a lot about the state of gaming.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"


ELI! In regards to SMB, do the restrictions of world 1-1 to 1-4 still apply? Just trying to figure out a strategy to maximize point gain.

Also, I'm fairly familiar with all of the games except for Freeway/Outlaw.


No, it's the most points you can get in 4 minutes.