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Season 3 Planning Meeting: Feb 12

by eli

With 2005 behind us, it's time to look forward to our off-season schedule, and talk about how the 2006 Season should work. We'll have our planning meeting Sunday, February 12, from 1-4 PM at the Malletts Creek Branch, including open play, heated discussion, and hopefully, the Season 2 DVD. Read on for more.

Items to be discussed include:

Sur-Prize rounds: stay or go?
Do Super Smash and Double Dash still have life in them?
Clan size and subs
Tournament Structure
Other tournament ideas
etc.

So, what do you think? Let's jumpstart the conversation here, and we can then meet in February to yell at each other in person.

Comments

Submitted by Sir Ducksalot on Sat, 12/31/2005 - 12:10pm

Well I would like these things but these aren't very important and only require a little effort.
• Commentator Entrance Test at preseason
• Having a clan score break down like the Individual Break downs
• Being able to see past years records

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Sat, 12/31/2005 - 12:59pm

I agree with the first 2, but I don't think the third is needed. However, it would be nice to have a total events won by this player and maybe a score from all seasons.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Duck this has to end i am sorry. Lets just get along though opinos tend to be different we need to respect eachoters opinons
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

also here are my improvement ideas for commentating.
I like a try out idea.
Also less commentaters. The commentaters are alyways switiching so you can never get use to one commentater. If tom and leinad come back they could commentate full time. Also i would like to see eli commentate again though this may be hard considering the increased responisibilites. he is the best play by play guy.
Also having everybody witha certain responsibilty one being color commentator on the match one being play by play and if you have three in the booth at once one commentatinfg more on the players example
Play by play
And Bad driver has moved into first place passing tp2 to win
race color commentator
looks like Bad driver has been stayingin second this whole race to pull ahead in the last second
player color commentator
Bad driver has had a really up and down season...
i would like to commentte next year i really enjoy talking and doing play by play for sports. i would enjoy any postion in the commentarey booth. i would like to commentate as a profession someday.
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

I'm sorry Bed Driver, normally I forgive and respect people even if they disagree with me but Tp2 stepped over a line and forgiving him won't come any time soon.

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Sat, 12/31/2005 - 3:01pm

duck he was just trying to defend his little brother. btw i am not a bed driver though that would be excing.
Also past records must be seen. Ele u could make baseball cards for the top ten at the grands and hand them out if u pre register.
I would like the point breakdown to be very in depth. Points in each round average points per a round. Breakdown of points in Kart and points in melee. That sort of thing. Also u could have several ways to rank everybody like most kart points most melee points and averrage points per a round.
make clans have depth charts example
4 member clans with a sub depth chart
the subs are in order so that if a member of your clan cant makea tourney you sub the number 1 guy in if that guy wasn"t there u sub the number 2 guy in and so on.
sub If the sub is the hioghest person on the depth chartthat attends the tourney
1. WRSTI
2. Tru dog
3. Duck
4. joe
You get the point
I like the idea of more room in clans6 sounds good and then a sub roster or u could have 6 with no subs and only the top 4 scores count. But, then u could have 3 people in ur clan and plenty of subs at the tourney but none of them can join ur clan.
Maybe u should have to announce ur subs before the tourney.
Like in fantasy football. Or u could have as big as clanas u want but, only the top 4 count/ go to clan cup. Just some ideas mostly bad ones but, still ideas
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Sat, 12/31/2005 - 8:13pm

How can i play computer if tour alyways using it
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

since i'm not gonna be here for the meeting, here are my ideas. I think we should keep the clan sizes the same, mainly because if, say, the trouble monkey clan teamed up with tp2 and duck, they would be almost unstoppable and would make the tournaments a bit less fun, as well as destroying some clans and making most of them worse than they were. I think we should keep the surprise round but lower the amount of points you get for winning/2nd/3rd/4th so people who have talents other than ssbm and mkdd don't go all the way up too the top, or make the surprise round something different like what some people suggested (coin battle in melee, or balloon battle in dd) you should already know the pros and cons of this suggestion, i think. I think that ssbm and mkdd still have lots of life in them which is trickiling away, and using them a few seasons from now would be pointless. and bad driver, ploz stop smamming since ur the one who's suggesting that we relinquish the ability to post near-infinate times in a day (no offence meant to anyone if you might take it) HARPY NEW YEARS ALL
Doom... Shalt... BLAZE!!![gtlogo:SDK]

While I also agree that clan size should remain the same, I don't think that TP2, Duck and the Trouble Monkeys could ever all organize together toward a common goal all season. And I think that Duck is commited to keeping the VMC alive with new members new year.

Question: Are Tom and I welcome at this planning meeting or is it only for those eligable next season?

I think that you should limit the effect of subs, that way you reward clans with active members (yes, I know that people can't make all the tournaments, look at me, I had to miss half of them this season.) Perhaps you could limit the number of subs, or only give half points to the clan for subs?

DD and Melee should definately continue next year, but I think that the surprise round needs to go. Alternatively, you could only play obsure or old non-GCN games for the surprise round, similar to the Grands. That way, very few people would be prepared, so it would be a true "surpirse" and measure how fast people can pick up a new game. Although that method might give Duck an unfair advantage.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]

Sorry Doomblaze i have been extremely bored. Clans need to be bigger. Turtle clan has about 15 to 16 members. I like the idea of 6 person clans with only 4 starters at each tourney but, all 6 compete in the clan cup. Is there going to be a new fourm for them adden tourney. Considering it is before the planning meeting.
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

I like the idea of 6-man clans with only the top 4 earning and no subs. It would make everything easier and would reward activeness without punishing those who can't make a tournament for a reason more important than a tournament.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

DD and Melee will last for this next season if not the next two, by the time they start losing life there will be replacement games. I defiantly would like the surprise round to stay, but more surprising games would be a lot nicer. If the games became just a little more esoteric or older I (and other players) wouldn't have the previous game experience advantage that gave me (and them) easy wins. For example I had no clue how to play Pong with the dial and found that to be quite intense competition.

Bad Driver I noticed he was defending you, but my <strong>one line</strong> insult didn't call for what he said.

Hey, its me again. I visited an Israeli farm today and I must tell it stinks, literally. Cows, Sheep, Lamb, Calves, and the Horses all kept taking dumps on the farm and I couldn't breathe at all. Dont go to the farms if u visit Israel. Hey Eli, since the NFL playoff brackets have been released , r we gonna be using the playoff teams? I say we because I will be coming back to Ann Arbor on the 1st of February because I have tickets to the Superbowl. So I will be back for a short bit, but rite when the superbowl is over, Im going back to Israel.

"Giggity Giggity Giggity, Alllllll Right!"-Quagmire
[img_assist|fid=279|thumb=1|alt=Black Shark Clan]

Duck of course you like the surprise round it was good to you, but I hate it because, what I noticed was that it wasn't skill at games that was winning it was whether you owned the game or not. Look at root beer tapper at the grands. You probably beat everyone because, you've played it before. I have personally played the real pong before so I would've done quite well in the surprise round. How would that be fair. It would be like me playing you in EE2. (if you don't own it). You wouldn't stand a chance. How would you feel if the winner of our game of EE2 got money. You would say that it is unfair.

I don't think Eli is going to find any games that no one has ever played before. In the first round the top 3 places all owned a copy (not generations) of bomberman. In the second round the top 4 places all owned or had extensively played Monkeyball. In the third round everyone had at least played warioware and I'm pretty sure the guy who won owned it. As for round 4 I don't know, but I would assume the same.

Duck I think that you have a very strong bias in this situation. There are players like Sravan who have earned incredible numbers of points, but lost in the surprise round every time. How is the surprise round fair to them. I think that the surprise round could stay, but it can't decide who gets the money. That is rediculous. Unless Eli could get a hold of games before they come out which is unfortunately highly unlikely.

As For kart and melee we have an interesting problem. On one hand we would like to keep both of them, but the truth is that different people come to different tournaments. There are people who like melee and people who like kart. So giving away all of the money for one game would upset people. That is why I support giving away money for each event rather than 3 big prizes at the end of the day. In order to keep kart and melee without a surprise round I think that this needs to be done.

The tournaments were still a little crowded and I think that we need to think of some things to get people out of the main room and into the basement lobbies. Also we should try to make CTN stop cutting the broadcast. I would guess that the GT is there most watched program. Why would they cut it?

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

why don"t we have 2 seperate tourneys.
For kart we could do battle, co-opand single kart and prize round
for melee stock, time and team stock
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

TP2 - Your Root Beer Tapper Example is flawed. I had never heard of root beer tapper before the tournament, but easily got a second seed way ahead of everybody except Duck.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]

My root beer tapper isn't flawed. My point is that people who have played it before have an unfair advantage. Duck had played it before and he got first. Also the way I worded my example directly to Duck means that there was no flaw. Leinad I was ahead of everyone who didn't own monkeyball.

If there were games that no one had ever played the surprise round would work perfectly, but because, there aren't the surprise round doesn't work.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by Sir Ducksalot on Mon, 01/02/2006 - 11:40pm

What the, I don't own Monkey Ball I had played it once over 8 months before the tournament for like 20 minutes. The last time I had played Root beer Tapper was over 2 years ago. Eli could get games no one has played by IMPORTING from japan.

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 1:45am

Ok,
1. You might notice that I am using the VMC logo. the reason is that I had taken part in creating the name vaccinated monks. I had nothing to do with the logo tho... Another reason is my position in the vaccinated monks next season. Dont forget that I have been having a spot in it DOOMBLAZE!
2. You might've noticed a lack of posts on my accord. Don't think that I haven't been attending this thread. It's one of my home websites. I have been reading all of your conversations daily since my last post. The reason I just havn't posted is because all you guys are doing is flaming and arguing. Almost as much as Mjr. Tom and Black Shark before the 4th round (I will never call you Black Moses ever)
3. Duck, I am creating a badge for you in my spare time. I hope you like it.
4. Also Duck, I love that idea of imported games. I've played many. The most addicive one I have played a weird cooking game called "ori no yori". I think it means "I'm the chef".................Ok, scratch this whole piece of post because its for playstation.
5. I'm listening to Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Love Rollercoaster" right now. Bit torrent it. NOW! You will be glad you did.
6. One last thing. All of you are arguing about what to put in for next season. I have some advice for that. WAIT TILL THE PLANNING MEETING TO ARGUE AND FIGHT! STOP WASTING YOUR TIME AND JUST COME TO THE MEETING!

---
"GOOOOOOOO left go right go pick up the step go left go right go left!"-Captain Jack
[gtlogo:VMC]

Evil Bus Driver I don't know if you know this, but you just negated Duck's comment about imported games. If you have some then chances are that others have them too. (Also mentioning illegal activities you partake in isn't a good idea on a government webpage, but I don't think they'll bust you.)

Duck it doesn't matter that you played 8 months ago. What matters is that you have played it before. Your cousins (or whoever you played it with) probably showed you how to win. All you had to do was watch them for half an hour and you'd have a huge advantage over the rest.

Same with root beer tapper. You had played it before so you knew the secrets and the strategies. I guarantee you that if we play Rise of Nations (which I haven't played in at least 6 months)(assuming you've never played it). I will still destroy you. Why because, if you play a game for more than ten minutes you won't forget the game.

I feel that this is turning into another SFA. Where you and the VMC are arguing for something that favors you without a logical leg to stand on.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Tp2 i agree with u about the prize round fully, and monkeyman owned mario party (was it 4?) and he owned funzo, me , and whoever else was at his house at playing mostly booksquirm, but some other mini games too. Evil bus driver, calm down, and i have to argue now cuz theres a 5% chance I can come to the meeting. Besides, i was only pointing out that with 6 people, some clans can get horibly overpowered. I just think that our clans just gonna get worse wit 6 people cuz the only people that r gonna join our clan r probobly the noise machine, and the other good clans can and will become alot better then we will be.
Doom... Shalt... BLAZE!!![gtlogo:SDK]

The turtle clan needs more room. Doomblaze you and Monkeyman need to do better recruting. Your clan is very good so it shouldn"t be too hard to recruit 2 people even if you have to go up to random people at the pre season.
Wario ware would be fun in Japanes. E.B.D. this is the warm up for the planning meeting. Lets eli know what the big arguments are. Than at the planning meeting we can throw punches but, that wouldn"t be good becuse i am probally going to be the smallest person there.
sur- prize round doesn"t have to go it just needs diferent games. It needs games that people who own it don"t have an unfair advanatage and if you don"t own it but, have played a game in that genere you will excel. A great example comes to mind they are called shooters. Also vehicle fighters (if you call them that). That i believe is the only genre that wasn"t in the sur-prize round. Seperate tourneys reward people for thier skill in the game they played and not a game they had never played( sur -prize ) This might not be possibile with the gt budget.
finially i like the idea of 6 man top 4 scores because this get rids of the very complex issue of subs. This would allow the turtle clan to have three clans possibily
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Why do we have warm up rounds again? Was it to have the people that have never played it before get a feel for it? You just hate the surprise round because you know we will never play shooters or RTS games.

Well I might have bias because I enjoy the unknown and have experienced far more games then the average gamer, but you have just as much bias because it didn't allow you to win every time like the first season. We're right back at the augment of set previously chosen conditions vs. more random conditions. Arguing that random conditions don't allow experts to win because they aren't good at adapting and I'm arguing that adapting is a necessary skill. Frankly given a vote your argument is more popular but good luck selling it to Eli. I don’t really care anymore stupidity is an epidemic that I don’t need to combat at this point in my life. Either way I’ll still win tournaments, I’ll almost certainly win more with your method.

How would we do the grands with your method tp2? Split the prizes so that both events have a DS, shuffle and SP for there prizes I'm sure people will love that. The big problem with your method is that it doesn't have any cross over between the games so there is no need to even have a combine season if they don't affect each other. Eli might not be able to get games before they release but he may be able to import games that weren't released in the US.

What does SFA stand for, I am horrible with acronyms?

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

Oh that well what about Bowser arguing that we have academic questions be part of the tournament? That has less of a place in the tournaments then Star Fox.

Hi, Eli, I want to make a wager, if I win 1 out of the 2 Madden Tourneys, u take into consideration about adding Madden to GT. 2 out of 2, u add Madden to GT. I will be visiting around July for a couple of months and I think u should prepare a good welcome to Season 3 to me. Kapish?

"Giggity Giggity Giggity, Alllllll Right!"-Quagmire

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 12:46pm

First of all SFA stands for star fox assault.

In the first season (excluding the grands) i won one tournament. In this season I got 3rd in one tournament. I think that those are pretty similar. Quoting you "I enjoy the unknown and have experienced far more games then the average gamer" you admit that you play more games than the average gamer. Which gives you an advantage doesn't it. The 5-10 minute warm up period only lets people know the controls not the strategy. As for my previous comment about you vs. me in EE2 if you had an hour with that game I could still beat you. Why? Because, even if you've played EE1 you still don't know the new strategies.

Duck you don't have a good point stop arguing. That is why I used the SFA acronym because, you kept arguing for SFA even though you didn't have a good point.

Duck if you check your points you'll discover that without the surprise rounds you aren't in the top 5 anymore.

Quoting you again "Either way I’ll still win tournaments, I’ll almost certainly win more with your method." I would like to see evidence of this. Under my system of prizes for each event you would win some from surprise rounds but I'm not going to count that because, surprise rounds are under question right now. It would appear that you might have gotten a third in team in round 4. Nothing in rounds 1 or 3. Maybe a 3rd in team kart in round 2. If there is a record I'm not seeing please tell me because, these facts prove that you barely squeak into the surprise round. With 2 3rd places in team kart I don't think you can argue that you are dominating any thing. I have at least 2 first places in team kart as well as qualifications in other events.

Please don't brag about being the best when you are really just the one who happens to play the most surprise round games. Duck if you take my total score and divide by three (i went to 3 tournaments) then multiply by 4 (there were 4 tournaments) than I score close to twice as much as you. Duck in fact if you take out your 2000 surprise round points you are ranked slightly above Moses. Please don't brag about your accomplishments anymore.

We aren't at the point of arguing against randomness. If you've read anything I say you'll notice that I always say that the surprise round gives people an unfair advantage. The words unfair and advantage aren't usually associated with the word random.

For someone who claims to have low self esteem you certainly hold yourself in high regard.

As for the grands I don't know yet, but right now I would say that we could have the elimination rounds get the top 16 from each event. From those (possibly 32 but most likely) 24 we'll have them play shine melee (in a different variation such as team or time) then the remaining 8 will do mario kart battles to decide the victor. Of course this is just a suggestion.

In conclusion Duck don't bring this up again unless you have a logical point or if you can find someone who didn't win something from the surprise round to support it.

That was a long post. I hope I don't have to do it again.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by ryanhibbs4@gmail.com on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 1:46pm

Tp2 See our clan uses an interesting concept of not only being with good people but with friends you see so we would not want duck in our clan (We were joking when we invited him and that was before he hit us):(

That is it I'm sick of arguing with someone who doesn't learn. You are such a prick and I can't believe you have friends with such a high and mighty attitude of yours. Do you understand I throw Matches, I mean come on you were in the final match of the 1st season? I don't have a competitive nature and like seeing others win, I have a heart; I was more concerned that my clan did well then myself doing well and after we qualified for the clan cup, in the 2nd round, I didn't really care much anymore until the December finals.

1st season you came to what 3 events and won 2 of them this season you couldn't handle the surprise rounds so you only won money once. Let me see you had 7 times that would have given you money using your system this last season yet you only won once; it seems you have the most to gain by switching the system to a non-surprise game hence your just as BIAS as me if not MORE BIAS. I view the surprise round as the chance for the underdog to snatch victory and not have the same people keep winning over and over again like it would with your system, but it's not like you care for the underdog.

Submitted by California Love on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 3:19pm

Geese Monkeyman, u sure r a dumbass, u r acting like the old me. I changed now, y cant u? U should eat a huge pile of biosolids from all the farm animals in Israel. U disgust me. U mite be ranked high in points, but u rank the lowest in sportsmanship. U dont have a heart, or a soul, or a brain in any matter at all. I would be surprised if anyone would let u be in their clan next year. I would feel sorry 4 them.
Poll:
Who do u hate more?
Me or Monkeyman
Vote Wisely

"Giggity Giggity Giggity, Alllllll Right!"-Quagmire

I was looking at the leaderboard and I noticed there is someone named lucky fetus in 8th place. Who is that? It must have been someone who changed their name.

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 5:09pm

Am I correct in summarizing what you say with the next paragraph?

The reason people have more points than you is because, you purposely lose. You didn't have very many points during the regular season because, you don't care about it and in fact you enjoy watching other's win. You care more about seeing others in your clan win (which didn't happen except for beebles and I've heard once for Tom). I have a bias because, you feel I am greedy and the surprise round stands in the way of my money. You also would rather have someone else win than a player who is known for having more skill.

Basically that is what you said (except with a good deal of malevolence) correct?

Because, if it is hardly any of it makes since. Also you should keep in mind that I came to 3 GT tournaments got a 3rd in one of them (not winning 2 of them). I came to the open melee too and got 4th in that (no money). I went to two tournaments last year before I got any money in the 4th one.

I'm sorry I have to say this, but I think you're lying about certain things. For example, if you enjoy watching others win, why did you win the surprise round in tournament 2? Beating out your fellow clansman which you claim to care more about than your own accomplishments. And don't say because, it was for the money because, the whole tournament was for the money.

I see that you have diverged from the surprise round issue. That is good. You've seen that you are pretty much the only one on that side of the fence and you realize that there aren't very many people in favor of the surprise round. Bad Driver who hasn't won anything isn't in favor of a surprize round so I don't think that it is greed that makes people like surprise rounds.

Imagine this, you are competing at the olympics. You are a world class skier. You get the best time down the slope and think you've won. When all of a sudden the judge says that now there will be a surprise round in order to decide the winner. Fifteen other people who had times worse than yours compete now in curling. Now you have never played curling. You lose the curling matches. You are now upset, but when you complain that it is unfair that a skiing match should be decided by curling people say, "you're just greedy, you can't stand to see the little guy win. You think that just because, you're better at skiing you should win every time."

As rediculous as that sounds. It is the exact same thing.

Duck I don't understand your logic in the beginning of the second paragraph. I don't understand where the number 3 or 7 came from, but I think you know that the system I propose will go back to where we were last year which I felt was pretty random.

Lastly, Duck I know that you're angry, but I would appreciate it if you responded without hate, malice, or profanity.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Forgetting Ducks and tp2'es squabbling.
I support bigger clans fully. If i had a car i would have a bumber sticker that reads bigger clans fight the man. Actually no i wouldn"t. Anyway clans add a whole nbew prepective it is kind of like how nascar has teams but, when you oout there you are an individual. Watching the Monks in a rebuilding season and the trouble monkeys overcoming attndance and performance issues well the turtle clan deals with overcrowding and skill dat killz deals with under crowding. well the other clans try to prove spoiler. Taht what makes clans so great they are like teams in an individual sport they make the most intense rivialries and make the t.v. audience keep coming back for more. ( ok we dont have a tv audience) Also eli as an intro to season 3 you should do what you did with the grands last year except with clans that would be awesome.
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

The round 2 surprise round was before the VM had a reserved seat and I want to score some points, the final round I really held back I mean a lot I only took about half the opportunities to attack the other players and spent most of my time dancing around, the other three people just didn't play very well, I kept waiting for people to put up a fight but it never came and I won practically by default. I barely even attacked beebles in those matches let only I didn’t really attack anyone that much. Also Joe S. was in those matches and I didn't want him to win just because of clan rivalry and I have seen Aaron place in many DDR events so I didn’t feel very guilty fighting those two but would have preferred a real fight from someone not to mention that I would have liked Beebles to have won it. If you look both times I went to the final prize round there was another monk in there for me to support, if Dan and I had to play pong against each other I would have dived so that he could have had a choice in prize.

I don't care for money, from the PSP I have more money then I know how to spend and will most likely give it to my parents so they can get a new TV for a much lower cost.

The 3 I now know is wrong, the first season you came to tournament rounds 2,3,4 and the GC and won the 4th and GC. The 7 refers to the 7 times in season 2 that you qualified and that with your system you would have won prizes for each of those.

It's not a profession tournament TP2 it's only the library and these events are for kids and we are trying to merge two different events into one so using a 3rd non-partial event is more fair then saying we're going to play event 1 because all the people that got in because of event 2 would feel cheated. Now there is one thing I like about your system and that is there are more prizes, even if they are worth less, hence more people can go home with prizes and be happier. That is the only reason I'll come to your side even through I feel it is fracturing the tournaments some.

I can see where you are coming from Duck and I know that this format would help me and I agree with you completely about a third non-partial event, but the surprize round doesn't work.

I suggested earlier that we keep a surprise round, but not for a big prize. Instead we give out a prize for each event including the surprise round. (Single Kart, Team Kart, Single Melee, Team Melee, Surprise)(5) if we can get $25 of funding more each month (or we could take it from finals) we could give $20 to first place in an event and $15 to second. The surprise game would still be there for the "underdogs" as you put it, but it wouldn't decide the winner of the entire tournament.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Wed, 01/04/2006 - 12:43pm

Money for each event is like making each event a seperate tourney so if Eli does that you might as well do seperate tourneys.
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

If we keep the tournaments together we could give a prize out for the most points earned throughout the day. I know this would push the budget, but we could give 30-25-20 for the most points in the day.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Eli - I know that we've talked about this briefly before, and I know that you don't like FPSs, but I would like to recommend Metroid Prime 2 again. It's one of the best multiplayer games on the gamecube in my opinion, and it's certainly not your typical FPS. Yes, it's rated Teen, which could be a minor issue, but it's not bloody or gory and you aren't fighting with real guns. If you can get melee through, you can get Prime through as well. Yes, it doesn't support LAN play (sadly), but neither does Melee.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Wed, 01/04/2006 - 5:19pm

Leinad MP2 doesn't have good multiplayer. First of all it has auto-aim. Where is the skill in auto-aim? Secondly, according to the back of the box there is animated blood. Lastly, it is a game where someone who has played it before would have an advantage.

I suggest a game from the medal of honor series. It is a pretty normal FPS. There is course advantage, but it is minimal. Because, it is set in WWII it would be a little more educational than any other game we've played. Most important, it is completely clean. No blood, gore, language, etc.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

The animated blood is only in the storyline mode in which you are smashing bugs, the multiplayer is completely blood and gore free. Metal of honor isn't educational in multiplayer I don't you get a huge background (pages of facts) on how this battle was important to the war because no one would play it if you had to read half a text book throughout the game. Plus with no blood, gore or language you don't get a true sense of how it was. I don't think any WWII could be considered educational.

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Wed, 01/04/2006 - 6:39pm

tp2 listen, The tournaments are over. I believe you managed to win one, good job for you, congrats. Now cant you just be happy for Ian that he won a couple. Also, no one cares about you dividing your score and finding out it is better than his.
As Ian had said, once you play a random game for 10 minutes, you almost never forget it. I do have SFA if its of any importance. I do agree that SFA should be a game in the tourney or in the suprise game pool.

---
"GOOOOOOOO left go right go pick up the step go left go right go left!"-Captain Jack
[gtlogo:VMC]

You completely misunderstood what I was saying about my score. After Duck claimed that he was the best, I posted that showing that he wasn't. I didn't post that trying to brag.

Also you have developed a bad habit of negating points in your posts. Saying that you have SFA will only make it less likely to be a surprise round game. Also there was a heated debate about SFA and in the end everyone, but VMC (who owned the game) agreed that there was no advantage whatsoever to playing it.

Duck I would have to say that you have some valid and invalid points. You are right to say that there is very little history in the multiplayer modes of a shooter, but you are wrong to say that about shooters in general. If you play games that pride themselves on historical accuracy you will learn a lot. For example, in the opening sequence of MOH: Pacific Assault you learn the entire background story of Guadalcanal. Furthermore int Conflict Desert Storm you are given the background of the mission before going on it. In BF42 you're given the background in the opening screen. The list goes on and on.

Also when you say that without blood, language, etc you don't get a sense of how bad war is, I get the impression you haven't played CoD2 on veteran. They don't swear and you can turn off blood, but the dialogue and the lighting make the game incredibly intense. I personally believe that blood and language don't have anything to do with a realistic experience. If you've seen the movie Gettysburgh you'll notice that the reality of war is shown without blood or language (I haven't seen it in a while so don't quote me on that.).

If we were to play MOH: Rising Sun (which I own) and we wanted to extract educational content from it. That would be hard because, the MOH console games aren't always following the path of history. Of course neither does MP2.

The advantage I see to a game in the MOH: series is that they are pretty average. (I realize that you might claim a bias in this situation, so I'll say right now that I own Rising Sun and would be the first to suggest Allied Assault). There aren't a whole lot of tactics that aren't in other shooters. There aren't a whole lot of cheap sniping points.

With that being said we should realize that playing a shooter at a tournament isn't going to happen. If there is an interest in playing shooting games I suggest a LAN party. That way the people who come will come knowing that they are going to play a shooter. More importantly I haven't played a single console shooter that is as good as any of the PC shooters I own. PC gives better control, allows for modding, lets you use teamspeak and other VOIP programs, etc. The PC is the platform for hardcore shooter fans and as a result the best shooters are only on the PC (except the rare few that make it to PS2 or Xbox never Gamecube).

Please don't argue with me that console shooters are better than PC without an argument based on fact. (In other words if you want to debate the best platform for shooters don't say console shooters are more fun.)

Finally Eli, would you please tell us if you have any intentions of playing shooters on the gamecube because, if you don't I think that would end this discussion before it gets heated and opinionated.

I would really like to not make so many posts. If people would stop attacking me or saying falsehoods that would be a reality, but as of now I am making 2-5 posts a day. It is interesting that the only people on this blog are VMC, Bad Driver and I.

One last thing. Who here uses firefox. Who here has never heard of firefox. Answering this question will help me figure out how tech savvy this group is.

This post was too long. Please don't read the whole thing. That would be a waste of time. Only read what applies to you.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Tp2 thank you for telling me not to read it after i read it. Also BF42 is very historicial. I have heard of fire fox not quite sure what it is though
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

for the surprize round games we haven't had 10 min to practice.
I never even got to do a full round of root beer tappers in the grand. and we were ahead of scedule.
and I'm for 6 people clans, top 4 scores

<em>This post was too long. Please don't read the whole thing. That would be a waste of time. Only read what applies to you.</em>

I stopped reading your long posts directed at Duck ages ago, same for Ducks posts at you.

Anyways, as Duck pointed out, the animated blood is only in the main game, not in multiplayer. And auto-lock is well compinsated for. It is easy to break auto-lock and also to dodge shots even when you are locked onto if you know how. Yes, there is an advantage to those who have played before. But I'm not suggesting it as a surprise round game. I am definately in favor of changing or eliminating the surprise round next season.

Speaking of which, here's another idea that i don't think has been brought up yet: Announcing the surprise round game a month ahead to time to give people a chance to prepare. The disadvantage to this of course is that it gives people with the money to buy all 5 games for the season a big advantage over those (like me) who buy at most 5 games a year, and would likely not want to buy more than 1 surprise round game because it would take away from my ability to buy games from my favorite genres, veyr few of which have multi-player.

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Thu, 01/05/2006 - 5:46pm

I don't like the idea of announcing surprise round games before they come. First of all I'm opposed to the whole surprise round, but I'm especially opposed to that. (It isn't a surprise if you do that.) With that said, if we did that it would force anyone who wants to stand a chance to spend at least $100 a year and I think we can all agree that no one wants to pay $100 to stand a chance at winning. (Although Eli could probably get quite a kickback from Nintendo.)

I have a question for a librarian. For years the library has offered computer software. Why is it that the library doesn't loan out console games. (Will the library be sued or do they just not want to?)

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by eli Staff on Fri, 01/06/2006 - 2:53am

TP2, we are already talking about a circulating videogame collection, which is librarian-speak for 'games you can check out'. If we keep the surprise round at all, I won't be announcing it ahead of time, at least not without changing the name of the event. =)

I don't have any current plans for gamecube shooter tourneys, but I'm not ruling it out for down the road. I do think that LAN parties could really work, though.

Moses, no bet, are you nuts? I have to say that I actually checked to make sure you were really in Israel, after your past performances, I'm sure many others had the same suspicion, and I'm pleased to say that you really are in Israel. I'm glad you'll be attending our Madden tournaments, though, as you're the only regular who actually knows anything about the game. I am not likely to consider including Madden in a tournament with anything else; it just takes too long and is too boring.

There will be open play at the planning meeting.

Anyway, keep the discussion going, at least the civil parts of it. =)

Black Shark it sounds like you are the person to beat at the madden tournament so I'm wondering a few things. First of all, who do you play as? Secondly, (I doubt you'll tell me this) do you run your team's playbook? Do you use their jersey?

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

I think everybody except doomblaze voted for 6 man top 4 score. Correct me if i am wrong. Being able to borrow viedo games from the library would be nice. Eli would the library be able to acquire recent games. Eli r u going to make a new fourum for the madden tourtament. Blogging has slowed down.
historicial accuracey doesn"t matter. no games we have played have anything to do with real life except for warioware and that game was pretty dumb but, greatly entertaining. i think a shooter would add a nice mixture to the sur-prize round
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Happy New Year to everyone. I hope something exciting happens to everyone and that you keep up your resolutions.

You all will find out who I am within a couple of seconds but I did say I was going to change my name. Joe probably knows why I picked this and maybe Noah too. Eli I will get you a koolaid picture so I can attach it to my posts. I will use the trouble monkey logo when the season starts. Also my gtplayer name will remain what it is because in the tournament results my name comes up a lot and I am known by that name to a lot of tournament people.

I was in the grand state of Florida at Disney World and Universal Studios, they were both amazing.
I should have been here to support tp2 and bad driver because I agree with almost all their ideas.
I especially like the prizes for each event. I am saying this because I qualified in a lot of events and some people only qualified in team events and got to take the cash. We could keep the tournament how it is with suprise games and everything but have prizes for event winners and maybe people with most points but those 3 will probably the suprise game winners.

I have many things to say good and bad to many people but I've decided that its a new year so everyone gets a clean slate in my book.
Also bringing back my idea of doing different modes from the 2 games which will stay for a while is also a debatable topic and I want to hear your opinions. But tp2's idea might be better because it keeps the suprise round which some players like such as Duck and gives event winners prizes which people like me and doomblaze will like.

I also want to add a historical note on this comprimise as it relates to the great comprimise(or conneticut comprimise) proposed by roger sherman and its how our goverment operates today. Bad driver and my ideas could be the virginia plan because it favored big states or better players and ducks is like the New Jersey where it gave each state an eqaul number of representatives or in this case each player a good chance. The Virginia Plan was obviously better. And Tp2's would be the great comprimise if you didn't catch that.

As for clans I vote 6. Not because I can have all the best of the best of the best players but because I can include my friends and it will be funner and will be more intense. And for the trouble monkeys Joe and I will be the 2 main members and we are looking for 4 new members but I have an idea of who those are going to be. We might even hold tryouts at an open play if a lot of people are interested but I want to get some people who didn't play GT last year(2005). Although my intention on joining the turtle clan still exists and its in the back of my head right now. So if you want to join the trouble monkey clan give me a holla.

And I think I got 6th in monkeyball because someone pushed me off the target when i had 2 stars. And tp2 I used to play RON and i have it but I'm not good, I tried playing online and I got my butt kicked. Wenbo and I like the greeks and the british.

As for LAN parties the computer fps ones would rock out loud but the people would have to bring the games and install it on the library computers(if they can run half life 2). A consule one would be better becasue people would bring their consule, games, controller etc. and their data would be on their consule or memory cardso theres no need to install or unlock anything. And we can get straight to playing. BF games are awsome I also like call of duty games, the one on the 360 is amazing.

Tp2, I know your statement about pc shooters being better than fps ones is probably true but there are great consule shooters. Especially new ones like PDZ and COD2 and FEAR which I have never heard of but it was the best fps of 2005. The good pc shooters include Halo 1, CS:S, Half life 2, battlefield, and many more. And if we want to decide about LAN parties we have to do it fast because Eli announced the dates of the DDR tournaments last year at the planning meeting so we have a month left to decide before it gets printed in the newsletter. Unless its a blog only one but it wouldnt bring a bunch of people. Eli, give FPS a chance I'm sure you will love it when you play it more often.

Is there a DDR for gamecube that isn't that mario thing?

Well thats all from me. I think this is a long post so you don't have to read the whole thing unless its directed towards you but you might just learn something ;)

[gtlogo:TMC]

kool aid guy u r not part of the trouble monkeys and u aren't on the leaderborad
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Kool aid guy i am 97% sureu r Sravan but, pr0 is still on the leaderborad so i am guessing u have 2 accounts
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

I am sravan and your library account doesnt have to be the same as your GT name. So i changed my library account from pr0 to the koolaid guy but i'm still pr0 on the leaderboard cuz that name has a lot of cred.

[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Sun, 01/08/2006 - 9:17pm

I don't think it is inside if it was on a nationally aired TV show, but just so you know I will always think of you as Sravan just as I'm sure you'd still think of me as TurtlePerson2 if I changed my name to The Minute-Maid Man (which sounds like an oxy-moron).

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Sravan of course. Like on the blog i guess u can call me the koolaid guy but not in person like i call u guys stephen and michael in real life.
gasolina would make a good DDR song. same with listen to your heart
[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Thu, 01/05/2006 - 7:30pm

ok, I use firefox. Thats how I have 4 home pages in tabs.
BF1942 is my favorite ww2 shooter. I played it at a friends house and eventually bought it.
As said before, multiplayer doesnt give any historical refrence except the guns they used or just anything visual you can pick up by paying close attention.
Tho about swearing, in COD Finest Hour which I have for Gamecube, swearing is heared. No one notices because only the Germans swear and you usually dont catch it.
And lastly, COD Finest Hour for Consoles wouldve been my favorite only if it had a multiplayer. It wouldve brought out much more players to buy it. But alas, only the pc can do that.

---
"GOOOOOOOO left go right go pick up the step go left go right go left!"-Captain Jack
[gtlogo:VMC]

Submitted by Snowman on Mon, 01/09/2006 - 6:13pm

I think that clans should be able to decide the number of people in thier clan (to a certain extent like 4-6), we would compare scores by the average score for the clan, total divided by # of players in clan. For the championships they can choose which 4 or whatever can go to the champs.

6 man clans top 4 count per a tourney. snowmans idea basicially means 4 people because if you have an option you would want less good peole rather than more medicore players
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

I can't make it to the meeting so here are my ideas 6 person clans top 4 (you can have less but you need at least 4), drop the surprize round exept in grands and have 2 completely different tornaments 1 for mele and 1 for mario kart. Mele on sunday mario kart on saterday. Have prizes be $40, $30, $20 and 4th place gets a t-shirt, but for the grands combine the tornaments and do a suprize round game for the top clans and for the main tornament but make it a mini game within the main game such as shine theft or giant mode. and this time give them a chanc to practice for at least 10 mins. also for mele always 4 person 2 time 2 stock but for elimination bottom 2 out its faster than the other way.

Total chang of subject but I heard that there is some writing contest at the library but then i heard you don't submit them to the library you turn them in at like 846 Ann Arbor or something weird. Can you varify the short story contest thing Eli?

[gtlogoSDK]
Dang...

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Tue, 01/10/2006 - 6:38pm

Sorry to randomly take whatever it is you guys are talking about off topic, but is there a thread for the Smash only tourney in Feb. yet? It seems a little bit far away, but I must continue the fight for NO ITEMS!

Submitted by eli Staff on Tue, 01/10/2006 - 11:38pm

Monkeyman, you make some excellent suggestions, but we won't be spreading it over two days. For one thing, it's too much of a commitment for people who want to be in both events, and also, we usually have tournaments for younger kids the sunday after a GT tournament.

There is indeed a writing contest, you can find out more <a href="http://www.aadl.org/node/1234">here</a&gt;. However, it sounds like you're talking about <a href="http://www.826michigan.org/">826 Michigan</a>, but I don't see any contests on their site right now.

Submitted by lain on Wed, 01/11/2006 - 4:52am

The surprise rounds are always very interesting. That mix of anxiousness, with a dash of wanting to strangle your opponents, are always something to look forward to at the end.

Super Smash and Double Dash has life in it. Albeit, that life is something equivalent to a beaten step child -- bastardous, and likely to be connected to a gruesome murder. We have some people there who actually want to play like normal human beings. Then again, we have other morons who blow whistles while playing, among other retarded stuff. You've got to wonder sometimes.

Clan sizing and subbing seems okay for now. Of course, there's the occasional one person or so not showing up, for some ungodly reason.

You guys are structuring the tournaments pretty well. It really does distinguise who's jesus, from someone with the skills equivalent to a gorilla chewing on the controller.

Donkey Konga would seem like an excellent tournament idea. But of course, we would definitely need more controllers. Whoever has a Donkey Konga bongo should really tell us and we'd get a Donkey Konga tourney up. Also, we really should do more DDR tournaments. Maybe even implement a grand championship kinda thing? Hell, we have a lot of people playing DDR at the tourneys. We could swing that.

Now, the prizes you guys give are great, but is there no way these gift cards to Gamestop and other stuff be cash instead? It's not unethical to charge $5 (or whatever) to enter the tournament. Put all the money into a pot and give 50% to first place, 30% to second place, and 20% to third. You could do this for some tourneys. Some would be free, others would be more hardcore and have an entrance fee of, whatever.

Because some would complain they're wasting money paying that $5 to enter a tourney, a good example is a DDR tourney (because I loves the DDR.) Say, 30 people enter and pay $5. We now have $150 in the pot. Now say we're going to make them all play a qualifying round to get the top 16 and only take the top 16. Well, for the 17-30 ranked players, they didn't make the cut and do not get to play. We give the players who didn't make the qualifying cut their $5 back and remind them they're failures at life. So that leaves the pot with $80. That's pretty good. It's almost on par with the $90 we get in gift cards from Gamestop. We'd give $35 to first place, $25 to second place, and $20 to third place. Good eh?

I don"t think the libary could get away with charging for touurneys though that would increase prize money. I won't be attending the madden tourney.90% sure attending planning meeting
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Err... Feb 24 or Feb 25... not sure. Somewhere around there. I want 40 dollars so no items would be quite nice. Except maybe for FFAs, where the crazyness should be great.

Whoa smash only tourneys can i have a little more info
also eli can we have a kart only tourney
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Rupert who are you? I hope you aren't that guy who challanged everyone you lost against to a rematch and then lost at open play. Items are in the game for a reason. They add a certain degree of randomness. One which the tournament organizers are interested in keeping. On this blog we've already discussed items and after quite a bit of heated debate we decided to keep them.

Just so everyone knows the new schedule is out.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

o tp2 he's not nikolia, the nintendo freak(and geek). he sucks cuz he's the "tool of nintendo" and he thinks hes better than everyone. rupert is a better ssbm player than him. i shall attend this smash only tournament. yea give us more info i couldnt find it on the site.
i would prefer no items but i don't mind playing with them.
[gtlogo:TMC]

I am willing to try no items at one of our smash only tournaments. I still think it's lame, but there are a lot of people who like it when weaker opponents don't have a chance, and we shouldn't deny that. Seeing that most professional SSB tourneys have no items made me waver. I think we could probably comprimise on banning some of the 'cheaper' items.

We won't charge admission, that's not what a library is about. We're pursuing ever better prize budgets, though, and I'll consider cash prizes.

Friday, 2/24, is the next Super Smash for 13+, 6 PM.

Eli smash needs items. Even though items do add less skill they also add more skill in ur ability to use items and avvoid items. Also when u say 13+ does that mean i can"t come. Why doesn"t the library do grade not age. btw can we have a new thread
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Bad driver items also raise your skill at item cacthing.
I don't like items in fact i hate them, but at least it gives the normally helpless people at ssbm at bit more of a chance.

5^2-5^2*5^2/5^2=0

Please don't make them cash prizes. Because they are gift certificates I have to spend them. Otherwise I think I would average one new game a year. I could see the arguments for cash prizes, but I think that you should negociate with GameStop to try to get a better rate (because, you are buying in bulk and because, they could get a tax break I think). I know that my argument is pretty much just for me and Bad Driver, but I think that there are other people like us.

In regard to items I would have to say that I am better without them, but I am opposed to removing them from competition. They really don't affect the match much, but as Vallastar said there is actually more skill with items. You must learn strategies for more situations. Before anyone rebuttles this know that I have played both sides (items and no items) and I enjoy playing items better, but win more with no items. Eli I think that even with items a level 8 computer would almost always lose to a level 9.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Sun, 01/15/2006 - 1:11am

I have emailed eli on this to ask him if I can have my friend bring his NES to play on the projector screen. He has Duck Hunt and so I was wondering if I could start an unofficial duck hunt tourney.

---
"It's not what your doing, it's the stupid way your doing it."-Vincent Valentine
[gtlogo:RED]

d-rex we want the better people to win because they deserve the money more than the n00bs. thats how tournaments are supposed to be, the best person winning. there is still a luck factor about the stages but some stages we might want to ban for 1v1 matches like hyrule and yoshi n64. i prefer no items but i can play with them. yea chiokee's right there is skill in item catching just yesterday i caught a capsule my friend threw at me.

[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Sun, 01/15/2006 - 3:18pm

In response to TurtlePerson2, the no items option was also put into the game for a reason, and even if items are "how the game's meant to be played", it's not exactly like Smash was intended to be played in tournies or anything. It was meant to be a crazy party game, but it's evolved into a competitive tourney game. At tournaments, you want to have the fairest possible match. I find items distract from the skill of the players, as a bad player can win with items. You may like items if you're not good because they allow you to win (I'm not saying you suck, just saying this is a reason many people like items), but you don't deserve to win a tournament through luck with items. The winner should be the most skilled player. I'm not the best smasher in AADL, but I'd like to place where I deserve to be, no higher, no lower.

Sincerely,
Rupert "Uncle "OMGWTFBBQ MEW2 IS TEH BETS!1" Meat" Faraway.

EDIT: Who is KoolAid? Srevan?

EDIT2: Oooooops! Didn't see Eli's post there. It's not like I enjoy crushing newbs, it's just I get tired of them lucking out and beating me... Actually, items on V. Low wouldn't be bad at all. So is this a "maybe" on no items?

Submitted by TheKoolAidGuy on Sun, 01/15/2006 - 4:06pm

yea rupert its me. items on low is a good idea too.
and we should increase the stock in matches even though we have limited time.
paintball is so fun.
[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by Sir Ducksalot on Mon, 01/16/2006 - 8:50pm

You know the reason no Items was put in was because they wanted to show you the difference between a 2-d basic fighting game and SSBM, because without items it becomes chess with only pawns. The true reason they have no items is to show that items are a defining point of SSBM and items are what places it apart from the crowd of other games. If you haven’t noticed there are other bare fighting games that have much better character balance and game play out there and items is the main contribution of SSBM to the gaming market. Items add a degree of skill that people with practice find to be a huge advantage. I mean come certain items can basically become ranged smash attacks if you know how to use them and items can augment character abilities for the better. Motion sensor bombs can link to great finishing moves. The only reason people don't like items is because they can't see that items have the highest potential of any aspect of the game, an expert item user can crush someone without having a long drawn out battle that can shift suddenly. I can see the removal of certain rather cheap items but stuff like beam swords and fans should never be removed because it drags the game down to the level of a game 16 year older then itself. I do not want items to go down to low because it drags us into the spiral of becoming less attractive to little kids and becoming more and more aggressive in our game play and less sportsman like, plus without a good amount of randomness nothing is interesting. This is suppose to make kids come to the library not make it an scary environment.

Sravan you have no say in items, I can whip out my quote and silence you on this matter if you would like.

I’m opposed to cash prizes because if I just got money I would never buy anything it would just sit and I wouldn’t use it for gaming purposes.

Wow only 19 comments after 4 days we really slowed down.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

what quote do u got?? it does add stratagy to the game but people find it cheap and I just want to lower it to low instead of medium so everyone will be happy. duck shut up. I dont want to argue with you so I wont start anything. maybe all the other fighting games don't have items in them because the creator thought it was cheap but HAL said ok we should just put this option in so the people who dont like items can play this way and we can still invent our new idea.
happy b-day mlk jr., so glad we have today off.
[gtlogo:TMC]

You want to sit quite and not have your voice heard fine I was going to use this at the planning meeting if you voiced your opinion against items but I guess I can whip it out a little early. Mind you I did modify it and he really posted this when we were talking about halo glitches.

<em>"there are a bunch of more glitches than that and what are the odds ur gonna get a sword and rocket they both arent on any map except the really big ones. the glitches are not unfair advantages beacuse they are open to everyone..."</em> Submitted by pr0 on Sun, 11/27/2005 - 6:43pm

Now how in the world can you state that items are cheap when you consider an UNTESTED GLITCH to be perfectly fair to everyone because anyone could get it I mean anyone can get items. What do you mean so everyone is happy if we count the votes we have Vallastar, d rex, TurtlePerson2, Bad Driver, myself and Sravan if you read the quote he must support items since they are better balanced then the Glitches he considers so fair. Now then there is Rupert who wants no items so he will win and Pickwick who is brooding over the fact that he lost a few matches because items swung the battle some in the GC matches. So it seems that even people that do better without items want them to stay to make the games more interesting and the people that don’t want items are either greedy or disappointed in their performance and are using items as a justification of why they lost. WTH Sravan not wanting to start anything while telling me to shut-up and poking me with a ten foot pole you are going to get an argument. Other fighting games do have items to spice things up just no one else decided to make them in such numbers and with such diverse effects as the SSBM items. Now I’m not saying we can’t remove a few items I’ll agree that certain items provide big advantages, hearts and stars for instance, but those few are not a justification to condemn all items.

Go ahead Sravan try and dig yourself out of this one. I should also point out that Joe S. is also unofficially voting for med. items since he agreed with sravan.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

nice. i give you props. but people can change their minds over 1 and half months by the way. but in halo 2 for example in a CTF game 2 players on opposite teams can use a glitch to walk through the wall but
in melee only one person gets the item. items in 4 player battles are ok cuz there really isnt a use of motion sensor bombs in 1v1.
[gtlogo:TMC]

These tourtaments are suppose to be fun. Items make them fun and add more randomness and craziness. MarioAKart for example everybody (except for the person geting hit with one) enjoys a blue shell and a photo finish
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 3:22pm

I'm not having fun at a tourney where I lose because of a lucky opponent. I'm gonna have a lot more fun when I don't get killed by someone with a hammer and a star and bunny ears chasing me down and killing me.

lol one time i was about to win with 2 lives and my 3 other opponents had one life with 15 seconds to go then all of a sudden a bomb appears next to one guy and he throws it at me while i'm standing next to another guy who gets a star a split second before the bomb hits us and i die and he lives with one second left. we get into a 4 way sudden death and then i got 2nd because i kill everyone but one guy is floating off and a bomb falls and quickly blows me off the side. I think some items like hearts and stars should be banned because they are too cheap and usually the same person gets them somehow or one person gets it and no more come leaving the other people at a disadvantage. I am okay with most of the other items though. At least hearts don't heal u completly anymore.

Rupert if you can only have fun winning thats kinda sad and good players can avoid all of those items a star if you practice dodging you can beat 1 if you practice catching items in the air you can get a heart easily and the hammer doesnt allow a double jump so if you knock them off they die and since most people can't control the buny hood if you stand in the same spot they usually miss plus you can also block attacks if you cant avoid them
only 1 item seems cheap to me and thatsonly because of my luck and that item is the bob-om because it it can appear at the worst time but a lower item rate would take care of that

5^2-5^2*5^2/5^2=0

you guys should just vote on it.

yoyoyo it's kang doin a yoyof'sho
spicy sexy hot doin a lot a lot with his kang in a gang.
oh dang,literey blang
blang? i mean bling, blings da real thing
yellow and mellow big ugly fellow
we both play the cello, we both eat green jello
E-dog and Lu-fu be fereal dude

I'm not having fun at a tourney where I lose because of a lucky opponent.
you posted that and since every player has the same amount of chance to get items a fight where 1 player gets lucky is still a fair fight but since you said that you don't have fun in those kind of macthes you just contradicted yourself leaving me in a most favored place because i wish to see your next reply please make it even more pitiful than the last i need a good laugh or better yet make it better so taht i have something to do in my spare time

5^2-5^2*5^2/5^2=0

Wow, Rupert, you can <strong>NOT</strong> let the hell go, can you. You're clearly outnumbered, and let's face it, you're arguing for a <em>bad</em> idea. Believe me, I've had experience doing that on this board, you lose pretty quickly. So just give up now, and save us all the annoyance.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

Wait tom what was your bad idea? I liked starfox assult once I played it.
Also I have some realitivly good news. Read this post if you are interested in joining the trouble monkey clan.
I presume there will be 6 player clans so we are looking for 4 new players who want to join our clan. If you want to Joe and I are going to organize tryouts during the planning meeting. The games will be double dash and melee but I havent decided on the format. Tell me in advance if you want to join and if you want to join make it to the planning meeting.
I also want to send some requests to players if they want to join
pickwick the second
valallstar
turtleperson2
black shark
but there will probably be other people and if you guys are interested then u have to beat them in the games to get recruited.
[gtlogo:TMC]

Still, it <strong>is</strong> too specialized a game to have in the tournaments.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

And i'm glad theres no freshman friday. Yup I deticated a whole post for it.
Also if you want to join our clan tell me some accomplishments you have done at aadl-gt such as winning prizes or winning events in either seasons so i get a background.
[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by The Melancholy… on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 10:29pm

acomplishments hm.... uh well i kinda don't have any othewr than the fact that i stayed in the top 20 through the whole season 2

on this blog i feel like loser among winners (Losers represent)

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 10:29pm

I'm not joining the Monkeys because that would be somewhat pointless. You have to realize that every clan that has 1 good player in it will get into the clan cup so you don't have to make a perfect clan to get your iPod shuffle.

Sravan don't worry about clans. If monkeys didn't exist you would have qualified by yourself.

Just a thought. I'd like to hear what everyone thinks. What if we gave away gift cards at the grands too so that everyone could buy what they want and not return things.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

That doesn't sound bad but the gift cards would have be worth more to make up for the actuall prize that you would of got

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

Money is a very bad idea. Because we would have eli handing out c notes instead of prizes. Maybe the gift certificate should go to best buy. Sravan i am trying to convince my brrother to let u and joe join tc but, right now it isn't working. If u and joe join that would would be fusing the top clans and the v monks wont be as strong.
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Sun, 01/15/2006 - 5:35pm

GOOD NEWS!
I have recieved my email reply from eli. He has given me permission for holding a Duck Hunt tournament on the projector screen. As TP2 had said, it might be too easy so I a contemplating on if using the tv or not. Also sevral rules will take place. None have come to my mind yet so be patient.
Also, if its of any importance, I have colored my hair (well, bleached it) Actually I kept the back half of my head brown and now the front half is golden. A friend showed me some anime that the hairstyle reminded him of. Some brown/red haired girl from Full Metal Alchemist. Just think of that but its golden not red.

So remember kids, always use a lot of conditioner after bleaching your hair or it will fall out. Also practice much Duck Hunt!

---
"It's not what your doing, it's the stupid way your doing it."-Vincent Valentine
[gtlogo:RED]

Speakingg of melee i encourage a switch to time over stock. The big reason is that it encourages figfhting not camping
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Submitted by Pickwick the Second on Mon, 01/16/2006 - 3:55am

The problem with time battles is that they lead to the better players competing to knock off the newer, younger, and/or less experienced players, an objection which is stronger than that to the removal of items, which is, in and of itself, an act which merely increases the likelihood of a victory on the part of the more-skilled player, rather than ensuring repeated annihilation on the part of the being designated 'target' for the duration of the round. It brings great joy to my heart to entertain the possibility of an absence of items when cometh the next event; I'm still smarting over my third-and-fourth-place finishes, which resulted primarily from the entropy introduced to the system by the abomination which is the option to play with items. [/rant]

Submitted by TheKoolAidGuy on Mon, 01/16/2006 - 2:57pm

You bleach your hair to look like some guy in an anime....WOW
I like time battles because it forces you to KO people if you want to win. I would prefer setting items to low than eliminating items because it makes everyone happy. But thats just me.

[gtlogo:TMC]

Items were good at medium. Pickwick time forces people to fight. In the open play tourney me and somebody else ran away from you the whole game. If it was time we would have had to fight. Stock allows camping and actually lets inespeienced people win(like myself in cae u haven"t notice i do poorly in melee) win. Time allows you tr come back after u lose 2 stock ur done even if u had been the only person fighting and had gotten 3 kos and a ton of damage.
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Items weren't good at medium, because it adds a whole new level of crazy luck to the fight that shouldn't be present in tournaments. Timed stock matches are best.

Low is a bit more acceptable. I'd prefer no items overall, but anything lower than medium is at least some improvement.

Heh, although I agree that items add a level of 'crazy luck' (and the real issue is whether or not you consider that a good thing), I don't think you can call the game's default settings 'new', Rupert.

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Mon, 01/16/2006 - 10:07pm

You guys are boring, seriously. I agree with Duck about only 19 posts in 4 days. I'm going back to the forums on Roosterteeth. I'll still be checking in but I wont have anything to say.

---
"It's not what your doing, it's the stupid way your doing it."-Vincent Valentine
"Dude are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!"-Marine ~Halo 2~
[gtlogo:RED]

Submitted by Pickwick the Second on Mon, 01/16/2006 - 11:05pm

A combination of stock and time still seems best to me. Time battle does not, as drex astutely points out, encourage combat as such; rather, it encourages strategic non-engagement, interspersed with quick forays into the fray in an attempt to purloin a kill. I agree, again, that any lowering of the item apparative frequency would be welcome; perhaps we could implement a variant of the system mentioned some time ago, wherein the players come to an agreement ere the battle begins, and if one wishes to remove items, they are turned down to Low; if two or three acquiesce, then Very Low; and if all concur in the resolution to turn off items for the duration of the battle, then off they go.

Submitted by lain on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 6:26pm

Okay guys try using a little sense. Money won't just lie around. It'll get spent. That's usually (or so I've heard) what money was made for. And hey, cash is usually excepted in stores. So I'm pretty sure Gamestop will let you use it. Cash is just more flexible and convenient.

Yet, this is true. It's a bit unorthodox for a library to charge. But I'm not saying to make all tournaments like this. Just a few, for those hardcore players of whatever. Like hold a few extra tourneys then usual that have an entrance fee. I REALLY think this idea would be good. I'd hold these tourneys. I'd LOVE to hold a tourney. Haha.

And it would be really bad form for a library to get shut down for gambling... That's a big no-no in Ann Arbor... or anywhere, really, for that matter.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

how bout large gift certficates for top 8
suppose therre is 945 dollars
1 300
2 200
3 150
4 100
5 75
6 50
7 40
8 30
these would allbe gift certificiuates to best buy or circut city were you could gert all the prizes handed out but, could also buy games. I think it would be better suited for the grands to give to top 8
"E
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]
li Is awesome"

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 8:21pm

lol tom that woud be funny. But it would be an interesting idea to have an optional side pot where it is optional and the topperson who put money into the side pot takes it maybe 25 cents a person if 50 people do it that is 12.50 and 25 cents is a very small amount
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

It's not really the ammount that is the problem, it's the fact that it's considered gambling at all.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

i knowbut, and i amm agnaits an entrance fee it is just an idea. btw the oragami thing is being taught by my science teacher
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Hey, Rupert hasn't said anything in a bit. Think he heeded our advice?
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

Maybe, but I haven't! I don't see why we can't compromise on the issue of items; as I recall, the idea of changing the settings of each match based on the wishes of those involved received some favourable press when it was raised a month or two ago.
To those who have finals next week, good luck!

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 9:58pm

Gambling that would be funny, but that isn't gambling. Almost all tournaments have an entry fee without a casino license.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 10:34am

Items are needed for melee. These tourneys are suppose to have some luck. Imagine mariokart without items the best person would probally wine every time but items have brought new stargies such as hanging out in last till the end or staying in second. It would be kind of funny if the library got shut down because of gambling. Excepth the goverment would be shutting down the goverment
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

Submitted by Sir Ducksalot on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 1:20pm

Almost all other tournaments are run by individuals not organizations. An organization may Rate or Judge an event, but all the money is handled by a few people and that is how they get out of having the license.

Pickwick I am willing to compensate by the banning of certain items. Mainly ones that act without user input like bom-bombs and stars.

Isnt gambling when we all pay money and the winner takes it all? banning certain items is good like the cheap ones.
in mario kart the winning people get worse items than the people who are losing but in melee anyone can get any item u have to keep that in mind bad driver.
And lord of war is a very good movie.
[gtlogo:TMC]

No Gambling is "wagering money or something of material value on something with an uncertain outcome in hope of winning additional money or material goods", so any amount for any amount, but dealing with the U.S. I believe you can get anyway with it as long as the object won isn't money.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

I've been studying for mid terms, but I know that you have more experience here and I will heed your advice.

Anyway. I would like to have a charge and have higher prizes...

BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

It doesn't seem very... libraryish (I swear that's a word!) to charge for stuff and the library administration would veto it. Oh well.

Good day.

EDIT: IT's so tough stop arguing...

Screw it. How about we take away the cheap items, like Srevan said? Those are the only ones I have a problem with.

That would be:

Bobombs. They fall into your smashes sometimes, and stuff like that.
Heart Containers. I know anyone can just jump up there and hit Z, but sometimes they fall right were someone is. They're just BS. It seems so stupid that someone would win because they were in the right place. Nothing should have that much swing.
Maxim Tomato. I find them worse than Heart Containers because they can spawn right next to someone, and the other player(s) have no chance of making it there by the time that person has used the Tomato.
Starman. Don't tell me being invincable isn't cheap.
Cloaking Device. Not as bad as Starman, but not taking damage is a little bit unfair. This one isn't really THAT cheap.
Hammer. This is kind of unfair. You know the part where they hit you and YOU DIE AT LIKE 5 PERCENT. Sometimes this thing is unavoidable. It's cheap.

Perhaps we should also ban stuff like Peach wallbombing down where no one can get her?

EDIT2: Can I make myself and use it if I host it on my own hosting space?

rupert the hammer is a doulbeedged weapon because if u get knoked off you stay off, and heart containers like i said you can catch them in the ar where they appear so the better players have just as much chance at getting them than the lucky n00bs that they appear by and maximum tomatos arnt that bad because they only heal 50% that isnt very much otherwise i agree with your items banning list

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 6:44pm

Maximum Tomatos = 50. Compare getting usmashed by Fox at 100 percent to at 50 percent... pretty big difference. YOu're right about the others, though.

We don't need to ban tactics since one we have Random Stage selection and two items break most of these tactics so no one character has huge advantages over the others, Peach wallbombing only works on a stage or two and you can hit her if you can put two and two together.

WTF is <em>"Can I make myself and use it if I host it on my own hosting space?"</em>?

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

LMFAO! Sorry about the "Can I make myself..." thing. I forgot to say "an avatar".

xD

Anyways, you're right, with items on, wallbombing is gone, but what about the items?

I know this isn't important, but if that was true than the 50-50 raffles that the Huron cross country team does would be illegal. The tournament Eli went to would be illegal. In fact the Thurston (elementary) school fair would be illegal because they charge you for tickets which you might win a prize with.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

It's not about gambling (although a lawyer might disagree) and it's not about what my bosses would say (although that's certainly relevant), but there is no way I would even consider an entrance fee for a library tournament. That's just not what we're doing here. Besides, if you live in Ann Arbor, your parents have already paid your entrance fee (in a sense) as part of their property taxes. So, you're welcome to discuss the matter further, but it ain't happening.

Huzzah! The mighty Eli has spoken!!!
*Trumpets sound*
<strong>ALL HAIL ELI!!!!</strong>
*Huddled masses drop to one knee in reverential respect*
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

lol Tom

now back to the item debate
should we ban items, ban some items or jus lower the frequency of itmes appearing
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

How about we don't ban anything, cause they're all there for a reason. If you guys are so good, then ideally you would be able to counteract these items, right? Right???
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Sun, 01/22/2006 - 2:12pm

First of all I'm against an entry fee.

Here is my final argument (although I must contest what Duck said about exemptions for charities) in Golf players pay to play in the PGA tour where they might make money. Entry fees to tournaments are incredibly common. They exist in any non-invitational tournament (except for little ones like the GT).

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Wow, you just can't let go of one little thing that's said on here, can you, TP2?
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

Hello everyone. My name is Jewdy Silverman. I go to Saline Jr High School. I am good friends with Sravan or "The Koolaid Guy". We went to Elementary School together and it was so heartbreaking that I had to move away to Morocco for 2 years after elementary school. But then it was great that I moved back here to Michigan and I got to talk to Sravan again this year and he told me all about this video game stuff and I like video games. I just couldn't make it to any of the tournaments because I was so busy with my Saline Math Decathalon Tournaments that happened every Saturday until December 24th. But know I'll know to quit math decathalon next year so I can do this event. The reason my name is Howdy Jewdy is because I lke the the term "Howdy Doody", but you see, my name is Jewdy, so I say "Howdy Jewdy", laugh out loud or lol. I cant wait to play in the Madden tournaments, I'm really good at Madden games. Are any of you guys going to the Madden tourneys, and are any of you guys good at Madden? Im gonna win 80 bucks!

Submitted by TC Bad driver on Sun, 01/22/2006 - 5:01pm

Howdy howdy jewedy i cant make it to the madden tourneys might i might play in a smash or season 3. i am tp2 brother. The entry arguement was over before it began and now it is officially over. okay officially over.
now in regards to items i am not agnaist the banning of health items because they are cheap but, i am not for it. Every other item needs to stay. hammers are not cheap. My brother owns me when i have a hammer it leaves u vunereable to range and a skilled player can easily aavviod getting hit maybe on small courses it would be harder. Items had a certain degree of randomness allow comebacks which leave dramatic marioKart games
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

ya rupert 100-50 is 50
but 100-50+50 =100 again
so just do 50 more damage
its easy
Edit: if you want to ban peach bomb jumping in small places you also have to ban wall jumping in those places, which i am compleatly against

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

Good Morrow, person who may or may not be new to the Library boards!
There is, in my view, something of a fallacy in one of the arguments made against banning Maxim Tomatoes: True, it is not difficult, in most cases, to deal an additional fifty damage in order to compensate for a foe's assimilation of a healing item, but you will never have the same advantage again that you had ere the healing incident; the opponent will have an increased amount of time to inflict damage upon you before they experience annihilation. In a 4-stock battle between two skilled players, fifty damage could well decide the battle. In a 2-stock, it amounts to approximately one fifth to one third of the damage you would expect to deal your opponent in order to KO them twice; this gives a tremendous advantage to the player who grabs it!
Another statement made in an earlier post was that it requires skill to acquire items before your opponent is able to do so, and, in demonstration of this point, an example was proffered in which one player is extant beside the future landing point of a heart, while the other is some distance away. The first waits for the heart to fall, while the second leaps over the first and snatches their heart away. The problem with this is that it assumes that only one player, who, for the purposes of this discussion, I shall henceforth refer to as 'Q', and who shall vary in character according to my whim, knows how to grab items in midair and has a greater distance between him, for I shall designate Q as being male, and the heart than does '?', as I shall designate the other player, despite the potential for confusion this decision adds to my post.
An examination of the possible outcomes of the dropping of a heart onto the field runs thus: 1. Neither Q nor ? knows how to grab in midair, and both are equidistant. Either may grab it, though the better one will usually win. Score one point for Skill! 2. Neither can air-grab, but one is closer and, thus, gets it. Score one for Luck! 3. Q knows how to air-grab, but is too far away to do so; ? grabs the item. Luck! 4. Q knows how to air-grab and the two are equidistant. Usually, this situation would end up with Q grabbing the item, as not all good players know how to snatch items from the air, but not many bad or mediocre players do(I am assuming, for this scenario, that ? is no Ken or Isai.) Skill! 5. They are equidistant, and both are versed in the noble art of air-grabs; Skill takes the point. 6. Q is closer; whether or not ? can air-grab is irrelevant, for Luck is at play. There are many other variations and degrees to which these scenarios could play out, but these are, to my tired brain, the most prevalent categories under which a heart could be picked up, and luck prevails under half of the condition sets. If you factor in the fact that most of the 190-some AADl-GT members don't know that grabbing items in mid-air is possible, that number would probably increase melodramatically.
It is within the realm of my knowledge that hearts fall with a distinct lack of haste, but there are many maps on which a player could conceivably be too far from the landing site to reach it in time.
In succour of my opinion regarding Maxim Tomatoes, it should be noted that they do not fall from the sky, and, thus, no skill is required to collect such an item unless two players are equally far from it.
Good Day!
-----Pickwick the Second------
PS: It's Math Analysis this time, Eli!
PPS: This post was cobbled together over several fifteen minute sessions during the last few hours, so its continuity likely leaves much to be desired. I do hope that this will not detract from the effectiveness of the argument at hand...

It may not be luck that you were farther away from an item, but the fact that you were out witted in a battle of position you didn't know existed. Where you are relative to the spawning of an item is completely under your control. I can predict where items will spawn and have a general idea what type of item will spawn, so I am able to position myself in a place where I have easy access to items. Items spawn in only a few spots on each map so even if you can't item count you could see when someelse is item counting. I don't think many people item count but the fact that it is a SKILL you can learn should break the thought that it is purely luck that player Q or ? was closer to the item when it spawned.

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

Very strong argument pickwick. I will agree that there is no skill in grabbing a maxim tomato except it might leave somebody vulnerable as they run towards it. I am agnaist the banning of items. Items add luck which gives n000bs a chance. Also the people who made the game tried to make it fun so the items probally make it more fun. btw i kno how to airgrab. Hearts should definetly not be outlawed because there is a matter of skill in getting them. Even if it is hitting somebody away when they try to grab it
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 4:55pm

Pickwick. YOU ARE A BEAST! Sorry. Just had to say. That was awesome.

Someone was saying that all items should be on or a select item wouldn't be in the game.

Nintendo didn't make the game perfect! There are glitches in the game and unbalances. Marth can chainthrow Falco to like 60 percent and then fsmash tip and BOOM! one stock gone! If you believe that tiers exist, there's another example of imperfection in the game. Fox infinites (don't say nobody at AADL can do them as A: I'm just proving a point and B: I can waveshine a Link player across Final Destination and then shinespike him at the other end of them map so people here can do it. Not 100% of the time, but I've done it a few times. I WILL MASTER IT EVENTUALLY! Anyway, back to the point on hand.) are another example. I've fallen through maps before... There's a lot of problems with this game. Not all items are perfect. That was an unnecisarrily long post. And I just spelled that wrong. Rupert ftw!

pickwick made one of the best arguments also he talks in a combiniation of old english and smartenies. He speaks pickwickese(what fun words)
Sure there are problems with the game but, all the items are good and add fun which is what these tourneys are about. Though an item may be cheap you should still be a good enough player to beat the other person because ur cheap item will come your way
Pickwick is a beast. That is definetly the top arguement this year. Lets keep a running tally og good arguements.
"Eli Is awesome"
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Submitted by TheKoolAidGuy on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 10:12pm

don't u mean *bows*?
btw u wanna join the trouble monkeys? please as a favor to me. we would be unstoppable.
good luck with mid terms tommarow everyone.
[gtlogo:TMC]

Hey everyone, its me again, is Pickwick also good at video games or somethin'. Pickwick, r u good at Madden? Do any of u guys know who's good at Madden. If not, then watch me win 80 bucks! LOL.

watch out howdy jewdy, noah trobe is like the est at madden. and on the topic of items the items that shoud be banned re the heart ontainer, because it heals the person so it would be hard to O. also the tarman because it makes you invinsable. even though the et container is similar to the maximum tomato i don't think we should ban it just because its 50 damage. if the loser gets it then the winner should be able to O the guy

Leer los errores en mi ortographia y escribe los letras para errores

[gtlogo:TMC]

We should def. ban the Tomato. 50 dmg = about 3 smashes with your average character. Plus it's 2 stock matches meaning 50 percent is a big impact! That's like an extra half life!

sravan pickwick says blushes because everybody was complimenting him. Also an unstobbale clan who wins everything in the season doesnt get anything in fact i remember u guys were first last time but still lost to the skillz clan btw speaking of unstoppale clans if u and joe joined the turtles and paduck came to a tourtament wow. Max tomato is the only item that has a somewhat justifiable reason to get banned.
this shows u how much i kno about tech compared to my bro. Myu brother is building a computer over the summer. I struggle to turn on a computer. ( wellmayb i am not that bad) Also my brother did an incredibile feat (to me anyway) deleted aol off the labtop.
btw more important subject THE STELLERS ARE ON THE SUPER BOWL
btw who do u think will win steel city or seattle.
anything else ummmmmmmm no
"Eli Is awesome"
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

If skillz dat killz and noise machine join then we will be unstoppable. My brother and I each have won third and reached the semi finals in grands the other times. Doomblaze would have been in first before the grands without the suprize round.

And paduck sucks he wouldn't have and woun't help your clan

YES GO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
come on guys look at my previous post. the message.

[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Tue, 01/24/2006 - 8:26pm

Or you could just tell us what it means?

Babelfish says: To read the errors in my ortographia and writes the letters for errors.

That makes so much more sense! Damnable online translators!

Submitted by tomcove6888 on Wed, 01/25/2006 - 9:39am

Sravan, you misspelled "ortogra<strong>f</strong>ia." The correct translation for that word is "spelling".

Woo, I just finished my Spanish final, so i knows what I be talkin' about.

Oh, and the Steelers are going to win. Not to brag or anything, but I <em>did</em> pick the Steelers to win from the beginning of this season. w00t.
---
"OK, next year we're going to change the tournament name from AADL-GT to AADL-G<strong>R</strong>... "Goat Rodeo!!!" - Eli <strong>
5000th comment poster!</strong>[gtlogo:VMC]

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Wed, 01/25/2006 - 1:24pm

AAUGH GOTTA STUDY!!!
Tomorrows my final Finals. The problem is its my two hardest classes. (Science and German).....Yes, German is my hardest class. BUT! I am learning a lot from the teacher. I got Herr Smith, <- Best teacher ever.

---
"It's not what your doing, it's the stupid way your doing it."-Vincent Valentine
"Dude are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!"-Marine ~Halo 2~
[gtlogo:RED]

Submitted by EvilBusDriver on Wed, 01/25/2006 - 1:24pm

AAUGH GOTTA STUDY!!!
Tomorrows my final Finals. The problem is its my two hardest classes. (Science and German).....Yes, German is my hardest class. BUT! I am learning a lot from the teacher. I got Herr Smith, Best teacher ever.

EDIT: Sorry for the Double Post.

---
"It's not what your doing, it's the stupid way your doing it."-Vincent Valentine
"Dude are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!"-Marine ~Halo 2~
[gtlogo:RED]

Submitted by TheKoolAidGuy on Wed, 01/25/2006 - 3:16pm

tom do what it said. correct the mistakes y escribe los letras that aren't there. son el message secreto.

[gtlogo:TMC]

Submitted by RupertFaraway on Thu, 01/26/2006 - 9:37am

AHAHAHA! NO MORE MIDTERMS! I AM THE CHAMPION!

I'll celebrate by pwning Sravan in Smash at the planning meeting.

Jk. But we sohuld deff. play there, Sravan.

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Thu, 01/26/2006 - 6:47pm

please disregard bad drivers comments. Deleting AOL is simple. Although the uninstall crashes everytime you try to run it (what a coincidence). All you do is just manually remove all components.
Yes I am planning on building a computer, but not this summer.

Black Shark is gone and it would be best if he didn't come up again.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Submitted by TurtlePerson2 (not verified) on Fri, 01/27/2006 - 7:47am

No, I'm not quite sure yet, but it I can say this. It will be a nice computer without being very expensive. I'm planning on spending less than 700. It looks like I might even come in at 500.

"TORTURIS EXUVIAS EUNT"

Tom are u saying that hearts should be banned or should stay? I read part of your post and skipped the rest after the Q variable stuff. How did you do on the history final? I ended up with an A- overall. I give u your cd the next time i see u. [gtlogo:FX]

So is Black Shark this Noah Trobe guy? Is he the one who is good at Madden? Is he ever coming back? Turtleperson2, what you said about him, is he a bad guy or something? Sravan doesn't seem to think he's a bad guy. Sravan, was Noah Trobe or Black Shark a bad person that was on this site?

rupert im not kidding i dont kid when it comes to my philosopies
and i forget who brought up stephen R. donaldson but i really need to thank who ever brought that up cause he is the 2nd best writer in my opinion and thats only because i havent read as many of his books as i have Raymond E. Feist
oh yea i saw galen today at the SAT/ACT place

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

Vallastar I'm the guy that brought up donaldson. How old are you? His books are written at a high level and I wouldn't expect a young kid to understand Feist. I'm only starting my first book of his, Loud Foul's Bane, and am only 70 or so pages in, but I find him to be an amazing writter. Will you be at the planning meeting? Also would you know of the Stilyagi?

"Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
[gtplayer:139] Knight of the octothorn table
[gtlogo:VMC]

im 13 and ive read the whole thomas covenant series and the second chronicles of thomas covenent and im a giasnt feist fsan whose older thasn his years
and i will be at the planning meeting b ut i have not heard of stilyagi

There is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid questioneers.

bs and nt are the same people. Eli will all final decsisons me made at the planning meeting
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Duck is right read some old fourms. He also owes a large sum of money to the swear jar.
Pickwick i was at some restraunt and saw pickwick tea. Just something random i thought of.
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Eli can we please have a new forum. This one isnt even on the first page
"Eli Is awesome"
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Submitted by TC Bad driver on Mon, 01/30/2006 - 1:19pm

This forum use to have a problem with people cussing. So i would say like 5 cents to the swear jar or something like that.After somebody swore. I never actually collected any money.
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

Guess who's back, back again, Moses is back, tell a friend. Hey every1, im sorry i couldnt post while i was in israel for a while, i was busy. i got a job on a farm, 2 bucks a week, that sucks. So hows it going and uh, who is Howdy Jewdy? I have tickets for the Superbowl this Sunday, GO STEELERS! Im going to be back until Feb 11th, that's when im leavin.

"Giggity Giggity Giggity, Alllllll Right!"-Quagmire
[img_assist|fid=279|thumb=1|alt=Black Shark Clan]

Hey, Black Shark. Welcome back.

I have an interesting story for everyone.

Pickwick is in my Journalism class this semester and today the teacher was calling attendance and asked people what they'd like to be called, and she asked him "Thomas or Tom" and I got him to say "Pickwick" :-) :-) XD XD XD

She refused to call him it though...

"Faulheit ist eine Tugend"
[gtlogo:VMC]

lol leinad. She should call him whatever he wants unless it is unappropiate
[img_assist|fid=126|thumb=1|alt=Turtle Clan Logo|caption=AADL-GT Turtle Clan]

"Eli Is awesome"

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